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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 26, 2016 17:03:51 GMT
There were loads of positives they could have picked up on. The fact the EU protects workers basic rights from basic wage all the way to being protected from unfair dismissal. Those aren't just going to vanish mate, but they could have used those to scare people into voting remain. The fact that the IMF said that the worlds economy is stronger with the UK in the EU. So? Economy isn't everything. The fact that some of the worlds leading experts in their fields were in favour of Remain. I'm not sure what experts you are referring too. I know that scientists are a little peeved off with it, but the only argument I've heard from them is basically, "MUH FREE TRAVUL". Oh dear, that's such a minor inconvenience to a minuscule amount of the population. The fact that outside the EU the UK loses access to the European Arrest Warrant and the European Health Insurance Scheme. i doubt they'd get rid of the arrest warrant, but I think the health insurance might go.There are plenty of things they should have focused on but they chose to just try and discredit the Leave Campaign. I'm not sure there's many things. Maybe they should have just made something up rather than using scare/bully tactics. pathetic really and the people know it.Currently the European Arrest Warrant is through the EU so would be at risk. If it had been through the ECHR (something we should have a referendum on IMO) it would be safe. True they could have made anything up but neither campaign covered themselves in glorý. As has been said this resembles the US Primaries more than a well planned Political Debate.
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 17:05:41 GMT
Please, no 4th reich or stuff like that... I don't think that 52% of the Brits are racists because they leave EU, would be nice to stop seapking about 4th reich with Germany and France because they're fine in. I believe in the auto-determination of the people to decide that they want for their country.
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Post by Atom Priest on Jun 26, 2016 17:12:50 GMT
Currently the European Arrest Warrant is through the EU so would be at risk. If it had been through the ECHR (something we should have a referendum on IMO) it would be safe. True they could have made anything up but neither campaign covered themselves in glorý. As has been said this resembles the US Primaries more than a well planned Political Debate. Agreed. Nobody could find out the actual info. Every fucker was lying or talking bullshit. I would have voted leave either way because things have become quite stagnant IMO. Time to shake things up a bit I think.
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I AM The Scouting Authority.
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Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 26, 2016 17:13:06 GMT
Please, no 4th reich or stuff like that... I don't think that 52% of the Brits are racists because they leave EU, would be nice to stop seapking about 4th reich with Germany and France because they're fine in. I believe in the auto-determination of the people to decide that they want for their country. Believing it and the Government of a country who control the Military and Police Forces actually allowing it to happen are two separate things. Sometimes the EU appears to be closer to both the 3rd Reich and USSR in their totalitarian "You Will Comply or face consequences" directives. They have allowed themselves to become bloated and rotten
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 17:26:21 GMT
I can understand EU can seem to be far from people intrests, our politicians helped a lot for this feeling. But I still don't like to see reference to the Reich even if Boris said it ;-) It's false, and that's not fair for all germans today who don't have to carry this legacy. You could have a backfire using this words because in EU a lot of people think the decision to leave EU is mainly due of the populist party in UK. And Reich was built by a populist party in Germany, so... I'm not sure it was usefull to compare EU as a 4th Reich. It won't help anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 21:22:52 GMT
#IndyRef2!
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 26, 2016 23:39:23 GMT
What do you think Scotlands plan would be if they voted for independence, as membership in the EU is going to be near impossible at least for a good few years? A member country needs to have had a national bank and currency, with a low level of debt, for at least 3 years to be considered for membership, plus a myriad of other things. Simply put, Scotland wouldn't be able to leave the United Kingdom and jump into the EU, as Scotland, as a new, independent country, would be too risky from a financial point of view.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 1:06:23 GMT
What do you think Scotlands plan would be if they voted for independence, as membership in the EU is going to be near impossible at least for a good few years? A member country needs to have had a national bank and currency, with a low level of debt, for at least 3 years to be considered for membership, plus a myriad of other things. Simply put, Scotland wouldn't be able to leave the United Kingdom and jump into the EU, as Scotland, as a new, independent country, would be too risky from a financial point of view. you never know what happens until you become independent just like what has happened with the brexit campaign leaving the european union. It can either be a good thing or it could be a total disaster like seen with whats happening right now in westminster. Regardless of whether i think its good or bad, Im voting for independence because i completely disagree with having muppets from another country govern our laws and economy and not only that going against everything we have voted for. The SNP has its own flaws bear in mind but they are the only party out of the whole political establishment that makes co-herent sense. Labour and Cons are both clowns and they have a piss poor representation of the people that live and work in the United Kingdom, If the SNP didnt exist i wouldnt vote for any party in the UK. Like i mentioned yesterday in the party, I never voted in the EU Ref simply because I came back home from work but couldnt be arsed going back out to vote however, If i did vote. I would be voting Remain for a whole variety of reasons. For example, The training and Education that i received was funded by the European Union. The laws that they have in place, Protect my rights to live and work within the European Union as well as even here. Could you imagine the chaos that would endure if the tories Scrapped the human rights act? The right to live and work in the European Union is a fucking massive benefit especially for graduates leaving university seeking to find a job. I have friends working over in spain and norway. This whole bullshit about immigration. Migrants working and living over here pay their taxes and have every right to live here a Scottish citizen they do their part and for the most part it works both ways in terms of our economy and back home. The free market. Our fishing industries as well as whiskey industries live off of being a part of the European union. Without it its a fucking struggle and soo far there are reports of jobs being lost ALREADY because of the cancer that endured over this shit brexit campaign. Both sides are at fault, But its fucking petty that not one person in England has spoke up to the result of brexit and nothing has been done about it. David Cameron may as well just resign just now whilst he is ahead, Same goes to that prick George Osbourne. Ohh and may i also add from the 2014 Scottish Referendum Campaign from "No Thanks" - A vote to stay as a Part of the United Kingdom, Is a vote to remain as part of the European Union" Is that fucking so Pig fucker? (David Cameron)
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 27, 2016 2:06:52 GMT
What do you think Scotlands plan would be if they voted for independence, as membership in the EU is going to be near impossible at least for a good few years? A member country needs to have had a national bank and currency, with a low level of debt, for at least 3 years to be considered for membership, plus a myriad of other things. Simply put, Scotland wouldn't be able to leave the United Kingdom and jump into the EU, as Scotland, as a new, independent country, would be too risky from a financial point of view. you never know what happens until you become independent just like what has happened with the brexit campaign leaving the european union. It can either be a good thing or it could be a total disaster like seen with whats happening right now in westminster. Regardless of whether i think its good or bad, Im voting for independence because i completely disagree with having muppets from another country govern our laws and economy and not only that going against everything we have voted for. The SNP has its own flaws bear in mind but they are the only party out of the whole political establishment that makes co-herent sense. Labour and Cons are both clowns and they have a piss poor representation of the people that live and work in the United Kingdom, If the SNP didnt exist i wouldnt vote for any party in the UK. Like i mentioned yesterday in the party, I never voted in the EU Ref simply because I came back home from work but couldnt be arsed going back out to vote however, If i did vote. I would be voting Remain for a whole variety of reasons. For example, The training and Education that i received was funded by the European Union. The laws that they have in place, Protect my rights to live and work within the European Union as well as even here. Could you imagine the chaos that would endure if the tories Scrapped the human rights act? The right to live and work in the European Union is a fucking massive benefit especially for graduates leaving university seeking to find a job. I have friends working over in spain and norway. This whole bullshit about immigration. Migrants working and living over here pay their taxes and have every right to live here a Scottish citizen they do their part and for the most part it works both ways in terms of our economy and back home. The free market. Our fishing industries as well as whiskey industries live off of being a part of the European union. Without it its a fucking struggle and soo far there are reports of jobs being lost ALREADY because of the cancer that endured over this shit brexit campaign. Both sides are at fault, But its fucking petty that not one person in England has spoke up to the result of brexit and nothing has been done about it. David Cameron may as well just resign just now whilst he is ahead, Same goes to that prick George Osbourne. Ohh and may i also add from the 2014 Scottish Referendum Campaign from "No Thanks" - A vote to stay as a Part of the United Kingdom, Is a vote to remain as part of the European Union" Is that fucking so Pig fucker? (David Cameron) You're right you never know, however without a currency I really can't see it ending well and i'm not sure the bank of England would allow the use of the pound in the event of a yes vote. I hope it does go well but the difference here is that England doesn't really need the EU. It's only been part of Europe for 7 decades or so and has the infrastructure to survive as an independent country as it recently was one. Scotland however has been in a symbiotic relationship with England for centuries and is very much reliant on aspects of that, so I doubt it will be as simple as Sturgeon thinks. The pound would potentially be gone, so would the NHS, the military (army, navy and airforce won't leave all that gear behind for example), all kinds of stuff, that would all need setting up. It's a monunental amount of work. Essentially building it from scratch, with no funding to do so. I get you guys not wanting people from another country telling you what to do, and it seems to be a major reason as to why people voted leave in England.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 3:25:53 GMT
I dont know much on the issue but if scotland became independent, It could use the euro?
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Post by Atom Priest on Jun 27, 2016 5:20:48 GMT
What do you think Scotlands plan would be if they voted for independence, as membership in the EU is going to be near impossible at least for a good few years? A member country needs to have had a national bank and currency, with a low level of debt, for at least 3 years to be considered for membership, plus a myriad of other things. Simply put, Scotland wouldn't be able to leave the United Kingdom and jump into the EU, as Scotland, as a new, independent country, would be too risky from a financial point of view. France and Belgium already said that they would veto an independent Scotland from joining the EU, and Spain is likely to do the same.
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RagingxMarmoset
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Post by RagingxMarmoset on Jun 27, 2016 7:23:53 GMT
I dont know much on the issue but if scotland became independent, It could use the euro? It could only use the Euro if it were part of the European Union, and it can't be part of the Union until it can prove it has a stable currency of it's own (among other things). Bit of a catch 22.
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 27, 2016 12:04:37 GMT
EU can imagine a fast approbation to join EU for Scotland, considering it concerns people who lived in EU since a so long time and voted for stay in EU. They won't be 'news arrivals', they yet their proof inside the EU. Our politicians can be creatives !
Seeing UK leaving EU will take a long time. I supposed first the parlement has to say his word before UK can officialy ask for begining to deal for leave EU. For being an official answer, it may be done by the parlement. I know quit nothing about British institution, but I can't imagine the MPs as representatives of UK people to not give their agreement, no ? If the parlement has to give himself the agreement to engage process, I read than 500 MP's were for stay in. So if this is true, how can the parlement can have a majority to give his agreement ? Sounds that labour's leader and Torie's one don't have the support of their own party.
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 27, 2016 12:23:34 GMT
EU can imagine a fast approbation to join EU for Scotland, considering it concerns people who lived in EU since a so long time and voted for stay in EU. They won't be 'news arrivals', they yet their proof inside the EU. Our politicians can be creatives ! Seeing UK leaving EU will take a long time. I supposed first the parlement has to say his word before UK can officialy ask for begining to deal for leave EU. For being an official answer, it may be done by the parlement. I know quit nothing about British institution, but I can't imagine the MPs as representatives of UK people to not give their agreement, no ? If the parlement has to give himself the agreement to engage process, I read than 500 MP's were for stay in. So if this is true, how can the parlement can have a majority to give his agreement ? Sounds that labour's leader and Torie's one don't have the support of their own party. To make an exception for Scotland where membership requirements are concerned would cause an uproar throughout the EU bloc as it would render the requirements moot for other countries and open the flood gates for any country to join. Bear in mind that the UK as a single entity was recognised as being in the EU, Scotland as an independent country wasn't and would require a new membership request, which is why it won't happen. To put it simply, Scotland has as much chance joining the EU as an 18 yr old with no credit rating does of getting a finance deal on a Ferrari. It's not a nice truth for Scotland but that's just the way it is. Sturgeon shouldn't be giving them false hope, she's very bad at her job.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 3:29:35 GMT
EU can imagine a fast approbation to join EU for Scotland, considering it concerns people who lived in EU since a so long time and voted for stay in EU. They won't be 'news arrivals', they yet their proof inside the EU. Our politicians can be creatives ! Seeing UK leaving EU will take a long time. I supposed first the parlement has to say his word before UK can officialy ask for begining to deal for leave EU. For being an official answer, it may be done by the parlement. I know quit nothing about British institution, but I can't imagine the MPs as representatives of UK people to not give their agreement, no ? If the parlement has to give himself the agreement to engage process, I read than 500 MP's were for stay in. So if this is true, how can the parlement can have a majority to give his agreement ? Sounds that labour's leader and Torie's one don't have the support of their own party. To make an exception for Scotland where membership requirements are concerned would cause an uproar throughout the EU bloc as it would render the requirements moot for other countries and open the flood gates for any country to join. Bear in mind that the UK as a single entity was recognised as being in the EU, Scotland as an independent country wasn't and would require a new membership request, which is why it won't happen. To put it simply, Scotland has as much chance joining the EU as an 18 yr old with no credit rating does of getting a finance deal on a Ferrari. It's not a nice truth for Scotland but that's just the way it is. Sturgeon shouldn't be giving them false hope, she's very bad at her job. The part ive bolded i completely disgareed with. She not only does something but she has a very good representation of scotland as a whole. If she was that shit at her job why was she elected as first minister and why has the SNP now gained 63/65 seats for an overall majority in the Scottish parliament and why is there growing fears of a total wipeout/Majority Government in the Scottish elections. She must be doing something right expecially when we were only at 49 seats in the last elections. EDIT: and not even that fuck sake, Look at how many Scottish MP's are elected in Westminster.. Irrelevant that may be to the question of joining the EU without a formal currency but she is definitely not bad at her job.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 3:36:07 GMT
What do you think Scotlands plan would be if they voted for independence, as membership in the EU is going to be near impossible at least for a good few years? A member country needs to have had a national bank and currency, with a low level of debt, for at least 3 years to be considered for membership, plus a myriad of other things. Simply put, Scotland wouldn't be able to leave the United Kingdom and jump into the EU, as Scotland, as a new, independent country, would be too risky from a financial point of view. France and Belgium already said that they would veto an independent Scotland from joining the EU, and Spain is likely to do the same. Its understandable on Spains part given that they have a hard time as it is keeping the cataloinians from becoming independent in their own country and dont want Scotland to be the blame for our own independence. (Encouragement). " Spain would veto any attempt by a newly-independent Scotland to join the European Union as it would encourage its own separatist movements, according to former senior EU official." Source - www.breitbart.com/london/2014/08/26/spain-would-veto-scottish-eu-bid/
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 28, 2016 9:06:23 GMT
To make an exception for Scotland where membership requirements are concerned would cause an uproar throughout the EU bloc as it would render the requirements moot for other countries and open the flood gates for any country to join. Bear in mind that the UK as a single entity was recognised as being in the EU, Scotland as an independent country wasn't and would require a new membership request, which is why it won't happen. To put it simply, Scotland has as much chance joining the EU as an 18 yr old with no credit rating does of getting a finance deal on a Ferrari. It's not a nice truth for Scotland but that's just the way it is. Sturgeon shouldn't be giving them false hope, she's very bad at her job. The part ive bolded i completely disgareed with. She not only does something but she has a very good representation of scotland as a whole. If she was that shit at her job why was she elected as first minister and why has the SNP now gained 63/65 seats for an overall majority in the Scottish parliament and why is there growing fears of a total wipeout/Majority Government in the Scottish elections. She must be doing something right expecially when we were only at 49 seats in the last elections. EDIT: and not even that fuck sake, Look at how many Scottish MP's are elected in Westminster.. Irrelevant that may be to the question of joining the EU without a formal currency but she is definitely not bad at her job. Fair point. However, If she pushes for, and gets, what she wants, and Scotland leave the UK, on the basis that it means Scotland can join the EU, when it can't, then she will have suggested and then caused an event that leaves Scotland fucked. I'd say that's bad. She isn't seeing past her hate for England. I know the hate of England isn't rare in Scotland, and people will rally behind her, but the path she wants to take isn't in Scotlands overall best interest. If she proposes a new currency, and how she intends to fill the void left in Scotlands infrastructure that result from leaving the UK, how she would reduce Scotlands debt, set up relations with other countries, set up a military and fund it etc then I would agree with you. However saying we disagree with Englands choice and want to leave the UK and nothing more than that just doesn't provide confidence in her long term thinking. Not from a neutral standpoint anyway. We may just have to agree to disagree in the end I guess. I don't blame Scotland for wanting to break away tbh, it's understandable. British parliament are dicks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 1:22:00 GMT
The part ive bolded i completely disgareed with. She not only does something but she has a very good representation of scotland as a whole. If she was that shit at her job why was she elected as first minister and why has the SNP now gained 63/65 seats for an overall majority in the Scottish parliament and why is there growing fears of a total wipeout/Majority Government in the Scottish elections. She must be doing something right expecially when we were only at 49 seats in the last elections. EDIT: and not even that fuck sake, Look at how many Scottish MP's are elected in Westminster.. Irrelevant that may be to the question of joining the EU without a formal currency but she is definitely not bad at her job. Fair point. However, If she pushes for, and gets, what she wants, and Scotland leave the UK, on the basis that it means Scotland can join the EU, when it can't, then she will have suggested and then caused an event that leaves Scotland fucked. I'd say that's bad. She isn't seeing past her hate for England. I know the hate of England isn't rare in Scotland, and people will rally behind her, but the path she wants to take isn't in Scotlands overall best interest. If she proposes a new currency, and how she intends to fill the void left in Scotlands infrastructure that result from leaving the UK, how she would reduce Scotlands debt, set up relations with other countries, set up a military and fund it etc then I would agree with you. However saying we disagree with Englands choice and want to leave the UK and nothing more than that just doesn't provide confidence in her long term thinking. Not from a neutral standpoint anyway. We may just have to agree to disagree in the end I guess. I don't blame Scotland for wanting to break away tbh, it's understandable. British parliament are dicks. Yeah I know where you are coming from, However Nicola Doesnt hate England. She doesnt like the tory government. She has equal opinions for everyone across the United Kingdom only that her best nterests are for the people of scotland which is understandable considering she represents us along with the SNP MP's in West Minster. However going on with the debate, She isnt goig all out for an independent Scotland yet, Maybe because of the reasons you stated but I know she is trying to work something out with the EU to get us into the single market or some shit. I havent read it properly so far from reading the news today. Also for the Infrastructure question, The same questions could be asked for the Brexit referendum as a result of leaving the EU also only that the currency is held in England. However as a result of this our brilliant chancellor has just said that we would face more tax rises and cuts due to leaving the EU because "Tory government" :/
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I AM The Scouting Authority.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 29, 2016 2:11:23 GMT
Fair point. However, If she pushes for, and gets, what she wants, and Scotland leave the UK, on the basis that it means Scotland can join the EU, when it can't, then she will have suggested and then caused an event that leaves Scotland fucked. I'd say that's bad. She isn't seeing past her hate for England. I know the hate of England isn't rare in Scotland, and people will rally behind her, but the path she wants to take isn't in Scotlands overall best interest. If she proposes a new currency, and how she intends to fill the void left in Scotlands infrastructure that result from leaving the UK, how she would reduce Scotlands debt, set up relations with other countries, set up a military and fund it etc then I would agree with you. However saying we disagree with Englands choice and want to leave the UK and nothing more than that just doesn't provide confidence in her long term thinking. Not from a neutral standpoint anyway. We may just have to agree to disagree in the end I guess. I don't blame Scotland for wanting to break away tbh, it's understandable. British parliament are dicks. Yeah I know where you are coming from, However Nicola Doesnt hate England. She doesnt like the tory government. She has equal opinions for everyone across the United Kingdom only that her best nterests are for the people of scotland which is understandable considering she represents us along with the SNP MP's in West Minster. However going on with the debate, She isnt goig all out for an independent Scotland yet, Maybe because of the reasons you stated but I know she is trying to work something out with the EU to get us into the single market or some shit. I havent read it properly so far from reading the news today. Also for the Infrastructure question, The same questions could be asked for the Brexit referendum as a result of leaving the EU also only that the currency is held in England. However as a result of this our brilliant chancellor has just said that we would face more tax rises and cuts due to leaving the EU because "Tory government" :/ That last bit isnt strictly true. All the way through the Remain Campaign said a Leave Vote would incur tax increases regardless of who held power. The Leave Campaign cant comment as they have no plan in place to Leave. As someone from the Leave Campaign said they expected the Remainers to have the plan
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 15:05:59 GMT
Yeah I know where you are coming from, However Nicola Doesnt hate England. She doesnt like the tory government. She has equal opinions for everyone across the United Kingdom only that her best nterests are for the people of scotland which is understandable considering she represents us along with the SNP MP's in West Minster. However going on with the debate, She isnt goig all out for an independent Scotland yet, Maybe because of the reasons you stated but I know she is trying to work something out with the EU to get us into the single market or some shit. I havent read it properly so far from reading the news today. Also for the Infrastructure question, The same questions could be asked for the Brexit referendum as a result of leaving the EU also only that the currency is held in England. However as a result of this our brilliant chancellor has just said that we would face more tax rises and cuts due to leaving the EU because "Tory government" :/ That last bit isnt strictly true. All the way through the Remain Campaign said a Leave Vote would incur tax increases regardless of who held power. The Leave Campaign cant comment as they have no plan in place to Leave. As someone from the Leave Campaign said they expected the Remainers to have the plan It is, It was just published by news outlets a few days ago. Source 1. - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-osborne-warns-uk-to-expect-spending-cuts-and-tax-rises-after-brexit-vote-a7106921.htmlSource 2. - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36647006
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