did 1 kill you
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Post by did 1 kill you on Jun 26, 2016 0:45:55 GMT
Turkey isn't gonna get away with invading the Middle East and the Balkans any time soon. Depends if they start getting pally with Russia because they can't join the EU soon. Shooting down Russian planes won't help
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 6:25:20 GMT
@ imhidingshh:
I don't think we gonna have a referendum in france. The last one was in 2005 about the EU borders, people voted no and gouvernment didn't care about our vote. A referendum is mainly in EU countries advisory, not legislative. Of course, we can't imagine politicians follow the result of a referendum, but it yet happened once in France....
We're deeply european, we know we're stronger inside the EU with 500 millions people that alone. We'll be less independant outside that inside EU.
Since the british referendum, we have the party of our ex president (the little Sarkhozy) who says he wants a referendum about EU. But this is just a game for our next presidential election in 2017, for distinguish from the socialist party who lead France. A game, but a dangerous one as happened in UK. Sounds that Cameron did this referendum for a internal british poltic to federate his party and cancell the threat to see Boris Jonhson take the control of the conservator party. And Jonhson for be differenciated take position for leave EU without being really against EU. Cameron played with matches, he burned his fingers and put fire to the house. He didn't want to see Jonhson becoming prime minister and...he may be the next one.
But I can understand UK votes for leave EU because european politicians always play with the fears of the people, say bullshit about EU. For resume their speech is: all bad things are the result of EU politic. So many false things are said about it. If you listen them, EU always take decision who go against intrests of any country in the union. Sounds like there's no european in EU parlement... EU is an organisation with too much bureaucracy they said. In the fact, there's less people working in EU in charge of 500 millions people that civil servants for the town of Paris. And France is the world champion of bureaucracy ! ;-) An other point for me important is how the people can juge the effecet of a politic. After the WW2, everything has to be rebuilt, so till the 80's, we could see if a politic was fine trhow the differents infrastructures done (Hospitals, schools, university, roads and so on). But once we have enought infrastructure the effect of a politic it's to win 0.2 point of economic growth, things that people can't see. The impact in their private life is quit invisble. And this is for me a danger, because without being educational it let the door open for populist parties who are agianst the elite and offer a simple point of view about how world works. That's mainly that happened in Europe beetween the 2 WW. Can we know the same right now ? I saw a great movie made by Dennis Gansell 'the wave' inspired by the experiment 3rd wave in the university of Palo Alto in california in 1967. And I think we can have the same if we don't be carefull.
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 6:59:57 GMT
I want to wake up in 1985...
French singer ;-)
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 7:25:24 GMT
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 26, 2016 12:23:37 GMT
Honestly MaNu the EU helped hammer the nails into the coffin themselves with economic threats. Also the people in Brussels being unaccountable as they aren't elected by the citizens of the EU didn't help either, that's always been a point that angers people.
In general remain did themselves more harm than leave could have done. Leave tried to put a positive spin on things and used national pride. People read about schools not serving pork, or holding Christmas nativity plays etc because it "offends" people. We have areas of the country where it isn't safe for white british people to go for instance. There's an area of the town I live in called Clarence park, where it is advised white people don't go alone after dark. Things like that mean having a patriotic stance in a campaign is powerful. Those kinds of things have been a source of public anger for a while now, and leave capitalised o n it They focused on saying things like make England great again, take back control, help the nhs etc, and they worded it carefully.
Remain used negatives, threats, and insults. Never positives that applied to the commoner. That was always going to cost them with this. More so than any lies. They are still doing it now. For instance, I see remainers calling leavers rascists (without realising the irony of the fact that they are using a negative stereotype by doing so, making them just as bad).
The difference between those 2 attitudes, positive and negative, was imho more impactful than any fact or lie was going to be. Remain should have focused on positives too.
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 12:39:39 GMT
First of all, I really wish the best for the Brits. I've some friends who leave in UK. I've got here in Grenoble friends who are brits. One is married with a girl I knew since a long time. I always see that I have in common with people, not the difference. In France we vote for our representants in EU.... seems not be the same in all EU countries. I thought every citizens in EU does the same that here... That's why I didn't understand few point of view, but now I can understand it. I was piss off too if I couldn't vote for who I want to represent my opinion in EU.
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Atom Priest
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Post by Atom Priest on Jun 26, 2016 12:43:16 GMT
Honestly MaNu the EU helped hammer the nails into the coffin themselves with economic threats. Also the people in Brussels being unaccountable as they aren't elected by the citizens of the EU didn't help either, that's always been a point that angers people. In general remain did themselves more harm than leave could have done. Leave tried to put a positive spin on things and used national pride. People read about schools not serving pork, or holding Christmas nativity plays etc because it "offends" people. We have areas of the country where it isn't safe for white british people to go for instance. There's an area of the town I live in called Clarence park, where it is advised white people don't go alone after dark. Things like that mean having a patriotic stance in a campaign is powerful. Those kinds of things have been a source of public anger for a while now, and leave capitalised o n it They focused on saying things like make England great again, take back control, help the nhs etc, and they worded it carefully. Remain used negatives, threats, and insults. Never positives that applied to the commoner. That was always going to cost them with this. More so than any lies. They are still doing it now. For instance, I see remainers calling leavers rascists (without realising the irony of the fact that they are using a negative stereotype by doing so, making them just as bad). The difference between those 2 attitudes, positive and negative, was imho more impactful than any fact or lie was going to be. Remain should have focused on positives too. Trouble is there wasn't really any positives for the remain camp to focus on. If there were they would have done that. There is absolutely no benefit for the common person if we stayed in the EU. The only people that were benefiting from the arrangement were those that are already rich; they don't see any of the problems that they create for others, and then they have the cheek to call us selfish. These people don't seem to live in reality nor do they want to.
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 26, 2016 12:50:21 GMT
First of all, I really wish the best for the Brits. I've some friends who leave in UK. I've got here in Grenoble friends who are brits. One is married with a girl I knew since a long time. I always see that I have in common with people, not the difference. In France we vote for our representants in EU.... seems not be the same in all EU countries. I thought every citizens in EU does the same that here... That's why I didn't understand few point of view, but now I can understand it. I was piss off too if I couldn't vote for who I want to represent my opinion in EU. That's a great outlook to have and it's a shame it isn't more common. Our politicians decide who represents us in the EU, the populace at large have no say. Similar to when Gordon brown and then David Cameron first became Prime minister. I think that's why some people were drawing comparisons to aristocracy instead of democracy.
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I AM The Scouting Authority.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 26, 2016 12:51:46 GMT
Honestly MaNu the EU helped hammer the nails into the coffin themselves with economic threats. Also the people in Brussels being unaccountable as they aren't elected by the citizens of the EU didn't help either, that's always been a point that angers people. In general remain did themselves more harm than leave could have done. Leave tried to put a positive spin on things and used national pride. People read about schools not serving pork, or holding Christmas nativity plays etc because it "offends" people. We have areas of the country where it isn't safe for white british people to go for instance. There's an area of the town I live in called Clarence park, where it is advised white people don't go alone after dark. Things like that mean having a patriotic stance in a campaign is powerful. Those kinds of things have been a source of public anger for a while now, and leave capitalised o n it They focused on saying things like make England great again, take back control, help the nhs etc, and they worded it carefully. Remain used negatives, threats, and insults. Never positives that applied to the commoner. That was always going to cost them with this. More so than any lies. They are still doing it now. For instance, I see remainers calling leavers rascists (without realising the irony of the fact that they are using a negative stereotype by doing so, making them just as bad). The difference between those 2 attitudes, positive and negative, was imho more impactful than any fact or lie was going to be. Remain should have focused on positives too. Trouble is there wasn't really any positives for the remain camp to focus on. If there were they would have done that. There is absolutely no benefit for the common person if we stayed in the EU. The only people that were benefiting from the arrangement were those that are already rich; they don't see any of the problems that they create for others, and then they have the cheek to call us selfish. These people don't seem to live in reality nor do they want to. There were loads of positives they could have picked up on. The fact the EU protects workers basic rights from basic wage all the way to being protected from unfair dismissal. The fact that the IMF said that the worlds economy is stronger with the UK in the EU. The fact that some of the worlds leading experts in their fields were in favour of Remain. The fact that outside the EU the UK loses access to the European Arrest Warrant and the European Health Insurance Scheme. There are plenty of things they should have focused on but they chose to just try and discredit the Leave Campaign.
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 26, 2016 12:51:51 GMT
Honestly MaNu the EU helped hammer the nails into the coffin themselves with economic threats. Also the people in Brussels being unaccountable as they aren't elected by the citizens of the EU didn't help either, that's always been a point that angers people. In general remain did themselves more harm than leave could have done. Leave tried to put a positive spin on things and used national pride. People read about schools not serving pork, or holding Christmas nativity plays etc because it "offends" people. We have areas of the country where it isn't safe for white british people to go for instance. There's an area of the town I live in called Clarence park, where it is advised white people don't go alone after dark. Things like that mean having a patriotic stance in a campaign is powerful. Those kinds of things have been a source of public anger for a while now, and leave capitalised o n it They focused on saying things like make England great again, take back control, help the nhs etc, and they worded it carefully. Remain used negatives, threats, and insults. Never positives that applied to the commoner. That was always going to cost them with this. More so than any lies. They are still doing it now. For instance, I see remainers calling leavers rascists (without realising the irony of the fact that they are using a negative stereotype by doing so, making them just as bad). The difference between those 2 attitudes, positive and negative, was imho more impactful than any fact or lie was going to be. Remain should have focused on positives too. Thing is, that's what the remain supporters are still doing. Now that they haven't got their way, all they're doing is treating anyone who voted leave like a complete fuckwit and shouting about how the British economy is going to be totally wrecked and irreparably damaged by leaving the EU, and how the United Kingdom as we know it is going to collapse around us.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 26, 2016 12:57:33 GMT
First of all, I really wish the best for the Brits. I've some friends who leave in UK. I've got here in Grenoble friends who are brits. One is married with a girl I knew since a long time. I always see that I have in common with people, not the difference. In France we vote for our representants in EU.... seems not be the same in all EU countries. I thought every citizens in EU does the same that here... That's why I didn't understand few point of view, but now I can understand it. I was piss off too if I couldn't vote for who I want to represent my opinion in EU. Ah you have your wires crossed. At the base level in the European Parliament the Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) are elected by the population of a country. Higher up the chain. The Commissioners and those in certain positions are unelected by the populace. They are selected by the MEPs from within.
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MaNu SoLOo
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Post by MaNu SoLOo on Jun 26, 2016 13:02:08 GMT
Higher up the chain. The Commissioners and those in certain positions are unelected by the populace. They are selected by the MEPs from within. As we vote for our MEPs in France, UK or other countries but we don't vote for ministers. So I don't understand why we could be against this for EU and not for our own countries ?
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 26, 2016 13:06:52 GMT
Higher up the chain. The Commissioners and those in certain positions are unelected by the populace. They are selected by the MEPs from within. As we vote for our MEPs in France, UK or other countries but we don't vote for ministers. So I don't understand why we could be against this for EU and not for our own countries ? Think a lot is to do with their unsuitability at a National level let alone European. We in the UK allowed the BNP to claim a seat a few years ago. Somehow once again allowing Fascism a voice on an international stage.
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Jun 26, 2016 15:33:35 GMT
Just read up the requirements for EU membership and Scotland would be fucked. Independance from the UK would leave them outside of the EU as they wouldn't get to keep current membership as that is listed as being for the UK as a whole which just voted to leave, pending activation of article 50 anyway, and not the countries individually. Scotland would have to apply as an independant country, that would, in the event of independance from the UK, presumably have no currency, it would have debt, and AFAIK no independent national bank.
Technically it wouldn't meet the entry requirements for EU membership. So why is that Scottish politician trying to torpedo her country? I don't get it.
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imhidingshh
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Post by imhidingshh on Jun 26, 2016 16:35:44 GMT
Just read up the requirements for EU membership and Scotland would be fucked. Independance from the UK would leave them outside of the EU as they wouldn't get to keep current membership as that is listed as being for the UK as a whole which just voted to leave, pending activation of article 50 anyway, and not the countries individually. Scotland would have to apply as an independant country, that would, in the event of independance from the UK, presumably have no currency, it would have debt, and AFAIK no independent national bank. Technically it wouldn't meet the entry requirements for EU membership. So why is that Scottish politician trying to torpedo her country? I don't get it. It's because she hates Britain mate, she'd shoot her dog if it helped her cause. But she looks stupid now because the EU have said they won't be allowed to stay as an Independant Scotland.
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imhidingshh
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Post by imhidingshh on Jun 26, 2016 16:37:33 GMT
Honestly MaNu the EU helped hammer the nails into the coffin themselves with economic threats. Also the people in Brussels being unaccountable as they aren't elected by the citizens of the EU didn't help either, that's always been a point that angers people. In general remain did themselves more harm than leave could have done. Leave tried to put a positive spin on things and used national pride. People read about schools not serving pork, or holding Christmas nativity plays etc because it "offends" people. We have areas of the country where it isn't safe for white british people to go for instance. There's an area of the town I live in called Clarence park, where it is advised white people don't go alone after dark. Things like that mean having a patriotic stance in a campaign is powerful. Those kinds of things have been a source of public anger for a while now, and leave capitalised o n it They focused on saying things like make England great again, take back control, help the nhs etc, and they worded it carefully. Remain used negatives, threats, and insults. Never positives that applied to the commoner. That was always going to cost them with this. More so than any lies. They are still doing it now. For instance, I see remainers calling leavers rascists (without realising the irony of the fact that they are using a negative stereotype by doing so, making them just as bad). The difference between those 2 attitudes, positive and negative, was imho more impactful than any fact or lie was going to be. Remain should have focused on positives too. Thing is, that's what the remain supporters are still doing. Now that they haven't got their way, all they're doing is treating anyone who voted leave like a complete fuckwit and shouting about how the British economy is going to be totally wrecked and irreparably damaged by leaving the EU, and how the United Kingdom as we know it is going to collapse around us. I've been called a racist by a few friends when they found out that I voted out, but when I explained why I voted out they calmed down a bit.
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imhidingshh
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Post by imhidingshh on Jun 26, 2016 16:39:01 GMT
The EU have said today "The UK must be dealt with and others must not be encouraged to leave in the future".
Don't know about you, but I can so see Darth Vader saying that.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jun 26, 2016 16:47:38 GMT
The EU have said today "The UK must be dealt with and others must not be encouraged to leave in the future". Don't know about you, but I can so see Darth Vader saying that. Was that the little closet Nazi thats currently in charge of the EU or was it Sarkozy?? The one the UK MEPs voted against in the Presidential Elections?? Its all irrespective as Germany and France want the UK as Military, Business and Political Allies. And we all know the 4th Reich is led by Germany with France as its quite clueless Lieutenant
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imhidingshh
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Post by imhidingshh on Jun 26, 2016 16:54:49 GMT
The EU have said today "The UK must be dealt with and others must not be encouraged to leave in the future". Don't know about you, but I can so see Darth Vader saying that. Was that the little closet Nazi thats currently in charge of the EU or was it Sarkozy?? The one the UK MEPs voted against in the Presidential Elections?? Its all irrespective as Germany and France want the UK as Military, Business and Political Allies. And we all know the 4th Reich is led by Germany with France as its quite clueless Lieutenant Yeah, Junkers. Sad thing for him is that France has said there will be no change regarding travel between us and Germany want us as associated partners, so it's pretty much just him thats against us leaving and throwing his toys out the pram. The US has said that there won't be any change in our "special relationship", Canada, New Zealand, Vietnam and India have all said they can't wait to start trading with us.
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Atom Priest
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Post by Atom Priest on Jun 26, 2016 16:58:14 GMT
Trouble is there wasn't really any positives for the remain camp to focus on. If there were they would have done that. There is absolutely no benefit for the common person if we stayed in the EU. The only people that were benefiting from the arrangement were those that are already rich; they don't see any of the problems that they create for others, and then they have the cheek to call us selfish. These people don't seem to live in reality nor do they want to. There were loads of positives they could have picked up on. The fact the EU protects workers basic rights from basic wage all the way to being protected from unfair dismissal. Those aren't just going to vanish mate, but they could have used those to scare people into voting remain. The fact that the IMF said that the worlds economy is stronger with the UK in the EU. So? Economy isn't everything. The fact that some of the worlds leading experts in their fields were in favour of Remain. I'm not sure what experts you are referring too. I know that scientists are a little peeved off with it, but the only argument I've heard from them is basically, "MUH FREE TRAVUL". Oh dear, that's such a minor inconvenience to a minuscule amount of the population. The fact that outside the EU the UK loses access to the European Arrest Warrant and the European Health Insurance Scheme. i doubt they'd get rid of the arrest warrant, but I think the health insurance might go.There are plenty of things they should have focused on but they chose to just try and discredit the Leave Campaign. I'm not sure there's many things. Maybe they should have just made something up rather than using scare/bully tactics. pathetic really and the people know it.
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