I AM The Scouting Authority.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jul 9, 2016 3:46:20 GMT
How many people would object to paying say $15 a year to be professionally screened by a Psychiatric Professional to allow you to keep your weapons in a secure cabinet in your home as opposed to having them held at a Firing Range for your use
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Post by JesterUSMC on Jul 9, 2016 11:51:38 GMT
How many people would object to paying say $15 a year to be professionally screened by a Psychiatric Professional to allow you to keep your weapons in a secure cabinet in your home as opposed to having them held at a Firing Range for your use How would you feel if you had to see a psychiatrist before you post anything on the internet? Or had to keep your mouse or router locked up at the local Best Buy where you had to go pick them up before you got online? (1st Amendment) Or before you went to church you had to fill out a form stating you are of sound mind to receive the Word of God/Allah/Etc.? (1st Amendment) You don't like having a group of soldiers quartered in your house? Sorry, take this exam to prove you are able to function on your own. (3rd Amendment) Did you want due process? Because you need to speak with the Psychiatrist before we can do that. Sorry. (5th Amendment) Oh, you got a speeding ticket for 10 over? The fine will be $100,000 unless you can prove you are not diagnosable with any form of mental illness, which may include ADD/ADHD. Good luck. (8th Amendment) See where I'm going with this?
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Skankhunt42
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Post by Skankhunt42 on Jul 9, 2016 12:36:07 GMT
I believe in Civil Rights. I collect antique firearms, and have little tolerance for those opposed to civil rights. However, I am more than happy to help teach someone willing to learn about their rights, and how to shoot 
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Skankhunt42
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Post by Skankhunt42 on Jul 9, 2016 12:46:37 GMT
Oh, and about the "militia" clause if the 2A -
The Supreme Court threw that out in the Heller case. It is not needed to be in a militia for the 2A to apply, it applies to all individuals.
Fun fact: it's easier to buy a tank in California than an AR-15.
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vvmrgoodcatvv
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Post by vvmrgoodcatvv on Jul 9, 2016 12:52:26 GMT
I believe in Civil Rights. I collect antique firearms, and have little tolerance for those opposed to civil rights. However, I am more than happy to help teach someone willing to learn about their rights, and how to shoot  IF I ever come to the US im Going take you up on that lol, the shooting part that is
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Skankhunt42
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Post by Skankhunt42 on Jul 9, 2016 12:57:23 GMT
I believe in Civil Rights. I collect antique firearms, and have little tolerance for those opposed to civil rights. However, I am more than happy to help teach someone willing to learn about their rights, and how to shoot  IF I ever come to the US in Gunn take you up on that lol, the shooting part that is It is quite fun, you might be surprised how badly the media misrepresents things here. There are, at the last estimate I saw, somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 million legal guns in the US. Yet, gun related deaths (not counting suicides, although even still counting them, the point stands) are absurdly low compared to basically any other way of dying. Doctor malpractice kills something like 10x the number of people firearms do yearly, but you never hear that. So called "assualt weapons" almost always are less than 300 murders a year; more people are murdered by being beaten to death than that. The gun crime statistics here are absurdly low compared to how the media paints it. They'd have you think there is blood running in the streets (hint: there isn't)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 17:45:01 GMT
How many people would object to paying say $15 a year to be professionally screened by a Psychiatric Professional to allow you to keep your weapons in a secure cabinet in your home as opposed to having them held at a Firing Range for your use How would you feel if you had to see a psychiatrist before you post anything on the internet? Or had to keep your mouse or router locked up at the local Best Buy where you had to go pick them up before you got online? (1st Amendment) Or before you went to church you had to fill out a form stating you are of sound mind to receive the Word of God/Allah/Etc.? (1st Amendment) You don't like having a group of soldiers quartered in your house? Sorry, take this exam to prove you are able to function on your own. (3rd Amendment) Did you want due process? Because you need to speak with the Psychiatrist before we can do that. Sorry. (5th Amendment) Oh, you got a speeding ticket for 10 over? The fine will be $100,000 unless you can prove you are not diagnosable with any form of mental illness, which may include ADD/ADHD. Good luck. (8th Amendment) See where I'm going with this? Well put. I may use this in a future discussion.
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FormulaZR
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Post by FormulaZR on Jul 9, 2016 17:52:26 GMT
I believe in Civil Rights. I collect antique firearms, and have little tolerance for those opposed to civil rights. However, I am more than happy to help teach someone willing to learn about their rights, and how to shoot IF I ever come to the US im Going take you up on that lol, the shooting part that is DON'T THREATEN ME with a good time.
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Skankhunt42
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Post by Skankhunt42 on Jul 9, 2016 23:59:07 GMT
IF I ever come to the US im Going take you up on that lol, the shooting part that is DON'T THREATEN ME with a good time. Lol I actually do like teaching new people to shoot. I've done it several times now, it's fun watching them go from being pretty nervous, all the way to being a pretty decent shot within one range trip.
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Pit Friend
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Post by Pit Friend on Jul 10, 2016 0:28:51 GMT
Shooting a bear with something under .308 caliber is equally stupid. As for .50 BMG - I dare you to find a crime committed with one. Now when you do, compare it to the number of crimes committed with .22lr. It's awfully hard to carjack someone with a 50# rifle. Military also doesn't technically use 50 BMG against soft targets, it's for engaging equipment and vehicles only. (nevermind that the shot missed the AK-47 "equipment" and hit the soft target). Full disclosure - I know that was the 'rule' at one point, don't know if it still is. As for suppressors - they do NOT work like they show in the movies. It merely makes something like a .223/5.56 sound more like a .22lr instead of a loud boom (supersonic cracks still apply, though). They are realistically very effective to be able to shoot and not wear hearing protection. That has numerous advantages when hunting or at a shooting range. I'm not trying to say that .50 weapons shouldn't be allowed because a lot of crimes are committed with them, I just think they shouldn't be allowed because it's a completely unreasonable thing for a person to have. As for silencers, I can see your argument, but really I don't think they're necessary. A firearm is a normally loud thing, I don't see any reasonable reason to have a way to make them substantially quieter. A silencer has a job, to make a weapon quieter, it was created to make them harder for people to hear, not to make it quieter so you wouldn't have to wear ear defenders. Making a weapon harder to people to hear isn't something everyone ought to be able to do. Oddly enough, silencers/suppressors were originally made to allow shooting guns indoors without deafening the shooter or everyone else in the building. The so called "saloon guns" in the Old West and such for indoor shooting galleries. In fact that's one of the more common uses of them today as well.
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Pit Friend
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Post by Pit Friend on Jul 10, 2016 0:35:32 GMT
Oh, I don't know then. The unnecessary shit. Silencers, laser sights, hollow point rounds, incendiary rounds, .50 weapons, dum-dum rounds, all the crap you really don't need for any reasonable purpose (I don't know about the legality of some of those in America, they're just general examples). Suppressors should be mandatory for gun owners, as they keep the rounds hearing safe and do not disturb other shooters, especially in an indoor range. Laser sights are very handy with people that have poor eyesight or are not physically able to hold a firearm up to see through the sights (Elderly, infirm, etc.) Hollow point rounds are essential in stopping over penetration when you shoot something. They 'mushroom' and keep the round inside the target instead of exiting the target and striking another person behind them. Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) rounds do the opposite - They pass right through the target and keep going out the other side, although somewhat reduced in velocity. These rounds are an absolute must for self defense ammo. Using FMJ rounds in a self defense scenario risks harming other people. Incendiary rounds are just fun, especially when shooting propane tanks. .50 rifles are useful for long range shooting and just plain fun to shoot. Not sure what 'dum-dum rounds are. Dum dums are basically an improvised hollow point bullet. You cut the tip off the bullet with a knife and then press a cross shape into the metal to help make it mushroom on impact. It was big in the 20s with the gangsters and even in the old west. But it went out of favor when revolvers became less common because they can easily jam an automatic. I think the term is still used for hollow points in Britan though, I've read it in several books and comics.
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Pit Friend
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Post by Pit Friend on Jul 10, 2016 0:43:06 GMT
No worries buddy. I appreciate both yours and SLB's interest in it. It's hard to sift through it all when there is such passion and strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
I try to be level headed and measured even though I feel I'm a staunch Constitutionalist (got that from my father) and have very strong opinions regarding our Constitution, Bill of Rights and what our country's founders had in mind as a form of government. I work hard to see both sides and even though I may not agree with the person I'm debating with, I can empathize with their strong feelings as well. After all, we all have differing viewpoints and beliefs.
I often wonder why the rules weren't changed in the 1920's when people like the Dillingers got access to the Tommy Gun and Bonnie and Clyde got access to the BAR. They were in fact. Originally there was no real restrictions on automatic weapons purchases, mostly because they were brand new at the time. As a matter of fact my grandfather bought a Thompson M1921 from Sears and Roebuck. It's still in the family, including the horribly racist sales pamphlet showing a cowboy using it to shoot Mexican banditos saying that it's "perfect for range defense!". And believe it or not BARs were also sold over the counter as Colt Monitors, we have one of those as well.  To purchase and own an automatic weapon now requires a permit as well as the payment of a hefty tax. Not suprisingly, legal automatic weapons have not been used in crimes. Criminals seem to be able to acquire them illegally, go figure.
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Skankhunt42
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Post by Skankhunt42 on Jul 10, 2016 1:32:49 GMT
I often wonder why the rules weren't changed in the 1920's when people like the Dillingers got access to the Tommy Gun and Bonnie and Clyde got access to the BAR. They were in fact. Originally there was no real restrictions on automatic weapons purchases, mostly because they were brand new at the time. As a matter of fact my grandfather bought a Thompson M1921 from Sears and Roebuck. It's still in the family, including the horribly racist sales pamphlet showing a cowboy using it to shoot Mexican banditos saying that it's "perfect for range defense!". And believe it or not BARs were also sold over the counter as Colt Monitors, we have one of those as well.  To purchase and own an automatic weapon now requires a permit as well as the payment of a hefty tax. Not suprisingly, legal automatic weapons have not been used in crimes. Criminals seem to be able to acquire them illegally, go figure. The rules were changed with the 1934 National Firearms Act. It put full autos, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and supressors into a special class of arms. They all require a special permit, invasive background check, and a $200 tax to own. Yeah, MG's are generally legal in the US, but the process to get one is cost and time prohibitive. Assuming you have the tens of thousands of dollars one costs, you then go through a rather invasive FBI background check (it's more detailed than the one for non-MGs), that takes right about ~6 months to complete last I heard. I'm not aware of a legally owned MG or .50 BMG rifle ever being used in a crime in the US
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Snorelacks
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Post by Snorelacks on Jul 10, 2016 15:17:28 GMT
IF I ever come to the US in Gunn take you up on that lol, the shooting part that is It is quite fun, you might be surprised how badly the media misrepresents things here. There are, at the last estimate I saw, somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 million legal guns in the US. Yet, gun related deaths (not counting suicides, although even still counting them, the point stands) are absurdly low compared to basically any other way of dying. Doctor malpractice kills something like 10x the number of people firearms do yearly, but you never hear that. So called "assualt weapons" almost always are less than 300 murders a year; more people are murdered by being beaten to death than that. The gun crime statistics here are absurdly low compared to how the media paints it. They'd have you think there is blood running in the streets (hint: there isn't) You'll never hear that homicides, armed robberies, and assaults are at their lowest levels since 1981 and continue to decline while firearm sales continue to massively increase (140 million sold last year), as does gun ownership. Doesn't fit the media or anti-gun narrative.
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jul 10, 2016 15:22:44 GMT
Not to make any sweeping generalisations or anything, but a lot seems to be pinned on the media and anti-gun groups. I'm getting the impression of a bit of an "us versus them" mentality.
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Snorelacks
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Post by Snorelacks on Jul 10, 2016 16:33:54 GMT
Not to make any sweeping generalisations or anything, but a lot seems to be pinned on the media and anti-gun groups. I'm getting the impression of a bit of an "us versus them" mentality. SLB...my personal frustration stems from the fact that the media has the power to drive almost whatever narrative they want without the opposing viewpoints getting an equal voice. We just had a very well known news personality get caught heavily editing an interview with gun owners in a anti-gun documentary. It's a good thing one of the gun owners recorded the audio otherwise the documentary would've been able to manipulate the message without recourse. At first she denied that she manipulated the audio, but had to publicly apologize once the gun owners produced the audio.
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Skankhunt42
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Post by Skankhunt42 on Jul 11, 2016 1:06:38 GMT
Not to make any sweeping generalisations or anything, but a lot seems to be pinned on the media and anti-gun groups. I'm getting the impression of a bit of an "us versus them" mentality. You would be correct. The media rarely paints firearm ownership in anything other than a negative light, which, when given the statistics, is ridiculous. A big part of the problem stems from ignorance on the part of the media. They scream about "the gun show loophole" that doesn't exist, they don't know the laws regarding firearms, and they don't know how firearms work. Their news coverage relating to firearms is predictably terrible.
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Niles Y93
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Post by Niles Y93 on Jul 11, 2016 2:54:08 GMT
Another thing I want to add, in regards to the mental health argument, is that it opens the door to possibly denying someone being able to own a firearm based on a diagnosis that may or may not be true. What I mean is, for example, I may be diagnosed with Autism (which I am high-functioning Asperger's) and a doctor, either through personal beliefs or outside influences, may declare me unable to own a firearm even though I may be high-functioning enough to discern right from wrong, etc.. If we start from that, how long would it be before opposing views are held as a mental disorder that bars an individual from owning a firearm? (Remember: Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM-III.)
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FormulaZR
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Post by FormulaZR on Jul 11, 2016 12:00:39 GMT
Another thing I want to add, in regards to the mental health argument, is that it opens the door to possibly denying someone being able to own a firearm based on a diagnosis that may or may not be true. What I mean is, for example, I may be diagnosed with Autism (which I am high-functioning Asperger's) and a doctor, either through personal beliefs or outside influences, may declare me unable to own a firearm even though I may be high-functioning enough to discern right from wrong, etc.. If we start from that, how long would it be before opposing views are held as a mental disorder that bars an individual from owning a firearm? (Remember: Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM-III.) Here's the exact wording of that question: Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?
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I AM The Scouting Authority.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jul 11, 2016 12:59:03 GMT
Another thing I want to add, in regards to the mental health argument, is that it opens the door to possibly denying someone being able to own a firearm based on a diagnosis that may or may not be true. What I mean is, for example, I may be diagnosed with Autism (which I am high-functioning Asperger's) and a doctor, either through personal beliefs or outside influences, may declare me unable to own a firearm even though I may be high-functioning enough to discern right from wrong, etc.. If we start from that, how long would it be before opposing views are held as a mental disorder that bars an individual from owning a firearm? (Remember: Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM-III.) Here's the exact wording of that question: Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? No. (oh I lied but nobody knows)
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