|
Post by JesterUSMC on Jul 8, 2016 18:41:41 GMT
As long as someone doesn't actively impede my right to defend my family as I see fit.... We'll be just fine.
|
|
Snorelacks
Captain
Posts: 1,779 
Likes: 1,255
Console: Xbox one
Clan tag: [BNKR]
Is R35T a Skreb?: No
Date registered: Feb 14, 2016 15:32:33 GMT
|
Post by Snorelacks on Jul 8, 2016 18:43:19 GMT
Widowmaker....I made a big edit to my post regarding the 2nd amendment and referenced the Federalist Papers. I posted the second part of my edit here so hopefully it helps clarify it some more-
There are and have been many people who have tried to argue that Militia only meant the military; however, there are numerous writings between legislators and congressmen at the time, including framers of the Bill of Rights that more clearly defined what was meant and it was clear that they meant the citizenry.
There are also multiple passages that further clarify the meaning in the Federalist Papers written by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison. These "Papers" written in 1787 & 1788 were meant to clarify the political ideas and their meaning for the new "American Democracy".
|
|
I AM The Scouting Authority.
Captain
Invicta Insomniac
Like a circle in a spiral, Like a wheel within a wheel
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 541
Console: Xbox
Preferred server: East
Clan tag: BNKR
Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
|
Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jul 8, 2016 19:04:39 GMT
Widowmaker....I made a big edit to my post regarding the 2nd amendment and referenced the Federalist Papers. I posted the second part of my edit here so hopefully it helps clarify it some more-
There are and have been many people who have tried to argue that Militia only meant the military; however, there are numerous writings between legislators and congressmen at the time, including framers of the Bill of Rights that more clearly defined what was meant and it was clear that they meant the citizenry.
There are also multiple passages that further clarify the meaning in the Federalist Papers written by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison. These "Papers" written in 1787 & 1788 were meant to clarify the political ideas and their meaning for the new "American Democracy".
Thank you. From a British PoV its difficult to find out. The US Media is either pro or anti NRA which clouds their impartiality and judgement |
|
|
Post by JesterUSMC on Jul 8, 2016 19:05:36 GMT
Widowmaker....I made a big edit to my post regarding the 2nd amendment and referenced the Federalist Papers. I posted the second part of my edit here so hopefully it helps clarify it some more-
There are and have been many people who have tried to argue that Militia only meant the military; however, there are numerous writings between legislators and congressmen at the time, including framers of the Bill of Rights that more clearly defined what was meant and it was clear that they meant the citizenry.
There are also multiple passages that further clarify the meaning in the Federalist Papers written by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison. These "Papers" written in 1787 & 1788 were meant to clarify the political ideas and their meaning for the new "American Democracy".
Thank you. From a British PoV its difficult to find out. The US Media is either pro or anti NRA which clouds their impartiality and judgement The media is pro-whatever the fuck gets them ratings. Truth be damned. |
|
I AM The Scouting Authority.
Captain
Invicta Insomniac
Like a circle in a spiral, Like a wheel within a wheel
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 541
Console: Xbox
Preferred server: East
Clan tag: BNKR
Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
|
Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jul 8, 2016 19:06:40 GMT
Thank you. From a British PoV its difficult to find out. The US Media is either pro or anti NRA which clouds their impartiality and judgement The media is pro-whatever the fuck gets them ratings. Truth be damned. True. They are slightly more controlled over here. Murdoch's millions mean nothing. |
|
Snorelacks
Captain
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 1,255
Console: Xbox one
Clan tag: [BNKR]
Is R35T a Skreb?: No
Date registered: Feb 14, 2016 15:32:33 GMT
|
Post by Snorelacks on Jul 8, 2016 19:10:21 GMT
Widowmaker....I made a big edit to my post regarding the 2nd amendment and referenced the Federalist Papers. I posted the second part of my edit here so hopefully it helps clarify it some more-
There are and have been many people who have tried to argue that Militia only meant the military; however, there are numerous writings between legislators and congressmen at the time, including framers of the Bill of Rights that more clearly defined what was meant and it was clear that they meant the citizenry.
There are also multiple passages that further clarify the meaning in the Federalist Papers written by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison. These "Papers" written in 1787 & 1788 were meant to clarify the political ideas and their meaning for the new "American Democracy".
Thank you. From a British PoV its difficult to find out. The US Media is either pro or anti NRA which clouds their impartiality and judgement No worries buddy. I appreciate both yours and SLB's interest in it. It's hard to sift through it all when there is such passion and strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
I try to be level headed and measured even though I feel I'm a staunch Constitutionalist (got that from my father) and have very strong opinions regarding our Constitution, Bill of Rights and what our country's founders had in mind as a form of government. I work hard to see both sides and even though I may not agree with the person I'm debating with, I can empathize with their strong feelings as well. After all, we all have differing viewpoints and beliefs.
|
|
I AM The Scouting Authority.
Captain
Invicta Insomniac
Like a circle in a spiral, Like a wheel within a wheel
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 541
Console: Xbox
Preferred server: East
Clan tag: BNKR
Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
|
Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jul 8, 2016 19:15:24 GMT
Thank you. From a British PoV its difficult to find out. The US Media is either pro or anti NRA which clouds their impartiality and judgement No worries buddy. I appreciate both yours and SLB's interest in it. It's hard to sift through it all when there is such passion and strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
I try to be level headed and measured even though I feel I'm a staunch Constitutionalist (got that from my father) and have very strong opinions regarding our Constitution, Bill of Rights and what our country's founders had in mind as a form of government. I work hard to see both sides and even though I may not agree with the person I'm debating with, I can empathize with their strong feelings as well. After all, we all have differing viewpoints and beliefs.
I often wonder why the rules weren't changed in the 1920's when people like the Dillingers got access to the Tommy Gun and Bonnie and Clyde got access to the BAR. |
|
|
Post by JesterUSMC on Jul 8, 2016 19:19:15 GMT
No worries buddy. I appreciate both yours and SLB's interest in it. It's hard to sift through it all when there is such passion and strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
I try to be level headed and measured even though I feel I'm a staunch Constitutionalist (got that from my father) and have very strong opinions regarding our Constitution, Bill of Rights and what our country's founders had in mind as a form of government. I work hard to see both sides and even though I may not agree with the person I'm debating with, I can empathize with their strong feelings as well. After all, we all have differing viewpoints and beliefs.
I often wonder why the rules weren't changed in the 1920's when people like the Dillingers got access to the Tommy Gun and Bonnie and Clyde got access to the BAR. They were - National Firearms Act (1934) put a $200 'tax' on NFA items (Equivalent to around $3,600~ today) Further measures were taken in 1986 via the Gun Control Act (Firearm Owner Protection Act) of 1986 - No more full auto manufactured after 1986. "Hughes Amendment" |
|
FormulaZR
Lieutenant
Posts: 917
Likes: 606
Console: Xbox one
Date registered: Apr 20, 2016 18:49:42 GMT
|
Post by FormulaZR on Jul 8, 2016 19:42:21 GMT
NFA items also require authorizing signatures (from police chief, sheriff, other high ranking LE) and much more extensive background checks than 'normal' stuff - unless you circumvent that with a Trust.
|
|
Snorelacks
Captain
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 1,255
Console: Xbox one
Clan tag: [BNKR]
Is R35T a Skreb?: No
Date registered: Feb 14, 2016 15:32:33 GMT
|
Post by Snorelacks on Jul 8, 2016 19:44:55 GMT
Widowmaker...you won't hear this from the media:
1. Gun homicides have declined every year since 2006 even though gun ownership has exploded and the population has increased- FBI & CDC
2. The gun Homicide rate is the lowest it's been since 1981- FBI.
3. The use of guns in homicides, assaults and robberies has been dropping every year since 2006- FBI
4. Many of the gun death statistics include suicides and accidental shootings- CDC & FBI.
5. The US has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world (45.7 guns per 100 people), but a far lower rate of homicides per 100,000 people than many countries such as Mexico ( some of the strictest laws on the planet- their strict laws only permit soldiers, police and trained body guards to own guns), Columbia, Honduras, Brazil, Argentina and even Liechtenstein.
|
|
vvmrgoodcatvv
Sergeant
General Asshole
Posts: 294
Likes: 90
Date registered: Feb 25, 2016 17:29:27 GMT
|
Post by vvmrgoodcatvv on Jul 8, 2016 21:27:00 GMT
What a fantastic discussion. I especially like the constitutional bits. I am a huge fan of that document even as a Brit, its something we should have.
|
|
Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
Faith, King, Empire
President for Life
The cause of labour is the hope of the world
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 628
Console: Xbox 360 & One
Mini-Profile Background: https://ericgerlachdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/samuel-johnson-cant-believe-what-just.jpg
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:06:06 GMT
|
Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jul 8, 2016 21:32:55 GMT
What a fantastic discussion. I especially like the constitutional bits. I am a huge fan of that document even as a Brit, its something we should have. We do actually have a constitution you know? |
|
vvmrgoodcatvv
Sergeant
General Asshole
Posts: 294
Likes: 90
Date registered: Feb 25, 2016 17:29:27 GMT
|
Post by vvmrgoodcatvv on Jul 8, 2016 21:36:23 GMT
What a fantastic discussion. I especially like the constitutional bits. I am a huge fan of that document even as a Brit, its something we should have. We do actually have a constitution you know? You refer to the magna Carta? |
|
Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
Faith, King, Empire
President for Life
The cause of labour is the hope of the world
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 628
Console: Xbox 360 & One
Mini-Profile Background: https://ericgerlachdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/samuel-johnson-cant-believe-what-just.jpg
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:06:06 GMT
|
Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jul 8, 2016 21:40:08 GMT
We do actually have a constitution you know? You refer to the magna Carta? No, we do have a constitution but it isn't actually a document. It's an unwritten collection of Acts of Parliament, smaller documents, treaties and judgements and statutes. |
|
I AM The Scouting Authority.
Captain
Invicta Insomniac
Like a circle in a spiral, Like a wheel within a wheel
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 541
Console: Xbox
Preferred server: East
Clan tag: BNKR
Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
|
Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jul 8, 2016 21:40:25 GMT
We do actually have a constitution you know? You refer to the magna Carta? The Magna Carta is one of several Constitutions British Law is based on. Some Laws are even older going back to the Saxon Kingdoms. Some like the Monarch being a Political Figurehead and having no power are much younger. Womens Votes are also within the British Constitution. |
|
vvmrgoodcatvv
Sergeant
General Asshole
Posts: 294
Likes: 90
Date registered: Feb 25, 2016 17:29:27 GMT
|
Post by vvmrgoodcatvv on Jul 8, 2016 21:43:13 GMT
So its a mix of laws and acts created over the years. I am sure I had read we had something like a constitution bit it was destroyed by the Normans. Honestly my memory is utter garbage
|
|
Snorelacks
Captain
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 1,255
Console: Xbox one
Clan tag: [BNKR]
Is R35T a Skreb?: No
Date registered: Feb 14, 2016 15:32:33 GMT
|
Post by Snorelacks on Jul 8, 2016 21:50:52 GMT
You refer to the magna Carta? The Magna Carta is one of several Constitutions British Law is based on. Some Laws are even older going back to the Saxon Kingdoms. Some like the Monarch being a Political Figurehead and having no power are much younger. Womens Votes are also within the British Constitution. The Magna Carta even had an influence on the writers of our Constitution regarding personal liberties. |
|
Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
Faith, King, Empire
President for Life
The cause of labour is the hope of the world
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 628
Console: Xbox 360 & One
Mini-Profile Background: https://ericgerlachdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/samuel-johnson-cant-believe-what-just.jpg
Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:06:06 GMT
|
Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jul 8, 2016 21:51:47 GMT
The Magna Carta is one of several Constitutions British Law is based on. Some Laws are even older going back to the Saxon Kingdoms. Some like the Monarch being a Political Figurehead and having no power are much younger. Womens Votes are also within the British Constitution. The Magna Carta even had an influence on the writers of our Constitution regarding personal liberties. Churchill tried to sell you lot one of the copies of it during the war to try to get you onside. |
|
Beast
Corporal
Head 360 Pleb
Posts: 172
Likes: 65
Console: Xbox 360
Preferred server: East
Clan tag: [AVRG]
Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://i.imgur.com/9z4cQa4.jpg?2","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
Date registered: Feb 15, 2016 17:24:57 GMT
|
Post by Beast on Jul 9, 2016 0:10:21 GMT
Here's my takr on the issue: everyone should be able to own whatever they want, provided they don't have mental problems or are criminals.
I ain't no politician so I'm not going to try and come up with solutions.
|
|
Niles Y93
Sergeant
Posts: 358
Likes: 57
Console: Xbox 360 & One
Preferred server: East
Date registered: Apr 5, 2016 4:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Niles Y93 on Jul 9, 2016 3:43:45 GMT
I usually try to stay out of these discussions but I feel like I need to say something.
First, I hear a lot of people in this thread talk about the mental health issue of the "debate"and how people with them should/shouldn't be allowed to own them (if this wasn't the case please forgive me). I have Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of Autism. (Oddly enough Autism is the first thing thrown out as a cause when a publicized shooting happens. See James Holmes and Adam Lanza.) I am high-functioning, know the difference between right and wrong, and know actions have consequences. Should I be barred from purchasing a firearm because of this? That is where gray area lies.
Second, for our British friends, we have the 2nd Amendment as protection against either foreign invasion (militia, in terms that I think are relatable, is the American version of the Home Guard of WW2, except answer only to the states) or from the government becoming too powerful and ultimately tyrranic. Think of it this way: Imagine if Cameron tried to pull an Oliver Cromwell. Or, if you have seen/read either "V for Vendetta" or "1984".
That's all I will say I in this post, but I am willing to continue the discussion.
|
|
