Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 15:53:39 GMT
Today on "I don't know how socialism works". Anyway, whatever, as to the article, I can't really see much wrong. "The Seattle City Council on Monday approved a pared-down version of the “head tax” on the metro area’s largest employers to fund efforts to battle homelessness despite public criticism from local businesses, including e-commerce giant Amazon."So, to begin with this is "to fund efforts to battle homelessness". I would hope that is universally regarded as a good thing to be doing. Other than that, all it says is "despite public criticism from local businesses including e-commerce giant Amazon". So essentially this is being opposed only by a bunch of rich bourgeois businessmen, including Amazon, a company owned by Jeff Bezos, a man who is "worth" 132.4 billion dollars and yet cannot afford to give his own employees decent working conditions. If you're basing whether or not something is good based simply on the fact that a massive multi-billion dollar corporation doesn't like it, then you might want to rethink it. |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 15:55:31 GMT
Yeah, taxing massive businesses in excess is a good thing.
It probably won't drive the business elsewhere leaving it's current employees.... unemployed.
Right?
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DerailedWingnut
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 15, 2018 16:01:53 GMT
Yeah, taxing massive businesses in excess is a good thing. It probably won't drive the business elsewhere leaving it's current employees.... unemployed. Right? It's like the sugary beverage tax they have in Seattle. Costco is putting notes on store shelves telling people to buy online because the city is making it too expensive to buy stuff there. I've never understood the thought process these people have with business. Oh, you managed to start a small business, and you were so successful at it that you're rich now? Well here, have your punishment for being successful. At what point does a small business become a big business and no longer sits in your good graces? |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:02:11 GMT
Yeah, taxing massive businesses in excess is a good thing. It probably won't drive the business elsewhere. Right? Yeah, cause making the 26th richest business in the entire world pay a bit more is really so terrible. They can afford it, they make billions upon billions in excess. The state (and by extent the people) should not be held to ransom by private companies saying "well, you make us pay a bit more, we'll just axe a load of jobs and outsource it to some place else". When that happens then businesses exert undue control on government policy. Business has a duty to the nation as much as anybody else, and they aren't fulfilling it. |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:02:48 GMT
Yeah, taxing massive businesses in excess is a good thing. It probably won't drive the business elsewhere leaving it's current employees.... unemployed. Right? It's like the sugary beverage tax they have in Seattle. Costco is putting notes on store shelves telling people to buy online because the city is making it too expensive to buy stuff there. I've never understood the thought process these people have with business. Oh, you managed to start a small business, and you were so successful at it that you're rich now? Well here, have your punishment for being successful. At what point does a small business become a big business and no longer sits in your good graces? > Amazon > Small business Choose one. |
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DerailedWingnut
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 15, 2018 16:05:15 GMT
It's like the sugary beverage tax they have in Seattle. Costco is putting notes on store shelves telling people to buy online because the city is making it too expensive to buy stuff there. I've never understood the thought process these people have with business. Oh, you managed to start a small business, and you were so successful at it that you're rich now? Well here, have your punishment for being successful. At what point does a small business become a big business and no longer sits in your good graces? > Amazon > Small business Choose one. The point was that Amazon started as a small business, they sold used books when they first started off. |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 16:05:45 GMT
Yeah, taxing massive businesses in excess is a good thing. It probably won't drive the business elsewhere. Right? Yeah, cause making the 26th richest business in the entire world pay a bit more is really so terrible. They can afford it, they make billions upon billions in excess. The state (and by extent the people) should not be held to ransom by private companies saying "well, you make us pay a bit more, we'll just axe a load of jobs and outsource it to some place else". When that happens then businesses exert undue control on government policy. Business has a duty to the nation as much as anybody else, and they aren't fulfilling it. Unfortunately you miss the point. There is no such thing as "excess profits". That's the purpose of private businesses, to make as much money as quickly, legally and efficiently as possible. When the gov't says a private company makes too much money and should "pay their fair share", the company should leave that area and seek life elsewhere. The gov't is, in effect, holding that successful private business hostage to pay for the gov'ts inability to handle it's own business. |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:08:57 GMT
> Amazon > Small business Choose one. The point was that Amazon started as a small business, they sold used books when they first started off. Yes, but it is notably not 1994 any more and Amazon is now the world's 26th richest business and employs over half a million people. Things have changed, they are no longer one man selling books out of a garage. It's no use pretending that it still is, it's immensely powerful now and has far more obligations to meet now than it did twenty five years ago. They're a dreadfully unethical business and I have no pity for them as it is. |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 16:09:40 GMT
The point was that Amazon started as a small business, they sold used books when they first started off. Yes, but it is notably not 1994 any more and Amazon is now the world's 26th richest business and employs over half a million people. Things have changed, they are no longer one man selling books out of a garage. It's no use pretending that it still is, it's immensely powerful now and has far more obligations to meet now than it did twenty five years ago. They're a dreadfully unethical business and I have no pity for them as it is. To whom, exactly? |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:13:05 GMT
Yeah, cause making the 26th richest business in the entire world pay a bit more is really so terrible. They can afford it, they make billions upon billions in excess. The state (and by extent the people) should not be held to ransom by private companies saying "well, you make us pay a bit more, we'll just axe a load of jobs and outsource it to some place else". When that happens then businesses exert undue control on government policy. Business has a duty to the nation as much as anybody else, and they aren't fulfilling it. Unfortunately you miss the point. There is no such thing as "excess profits". That's the purpose of private businesses, to make as much money as quickly, legally and efficiently as possible. When the gov't says a private company makes too much money and should "pay their fair share", the company should leave that area and seek life elsewhere. The gov't is, in effect, holding that successful private business hostage to pay for the gov'ts inability to handle it's own business. Unfortunately you also miss the point, given that (predictably) I'm approaching this from a socialist standpoint. Capital is just a meaningless social construct. The resources exist to help people, put them to use, don't leave them sitting around in a Swiss bank account for a man already "worth" more than 99% of the human race to make even more money off it and just go on and use to make even more money, and then use that money to make even more money than that, (repeat ad nauseam). |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
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The cause of labour is the hope of the world
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:16:00 GMT
Yes, but it is notably not 1994 any more and Amazon is now the world's 26th richest business and employs over half a million people. Things have changed, they are no longer one man selling books out of a garage. It's no use pretending that it still is, it's immensely powerful now and has far more obligations to meet now than it did twenty five years ago. They're a dreadfully unethical business and I have no pity for them as it is. To whom, exactly? Well for a start to its employees, who are already treated awfully. On a larger scale, to society in general. They're a huge source of wealth that it is never used, it should be tapped into to help the community at large. They're a part of the community as much as a private citizen is, they ought to do their most to advance the interests of the many. Of course they won't, because they care nothing for actually helping anybody. |
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LIBARYKEEPER483
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Post by LIBARYKEEPER483 on May 15, 2018 16:17:27 GMT
Unfortunately you miss the point. There is no such thing as "excess profits". That's the purpose of private businesses, to make as much money as quickly, legally and efficiently as possible. When the gov't says a private company makes too much money and should "pay their fair share", the company should leave that area and seek life elsewhere. The gov't is, in effect, holding that successful private business hostage to pay for the gov'ts inability to handle it's own business. Unfortunately you also miss the point, given that (predictably) I'm approaching this from a socialist standpoint. Capital is just a meaningless social construct. The resources exist to help people, put them to use, don't leave them sitting around in a Swiss bank account for a man already "worth" more than 99% of the human race to make even more money off it and just go on and use to make even more money, and then use that money to make even more money than that, (repeat ad nauseam). You can never make "Enough" Money, Money talks and the more you got the more control you have. |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 16:18:17 GMT
Unfortunately you miss the point. There is no such thing as "excess profits". That's the purpose of private businesses, to make as much money as quickly, legally and efficiently as possible. When the gov't says a private company makes too much money and should "pay their fair share", the company should leave that area and seek life elsewhere. The gov't is, in effect, holding that successful private business hostage to pay for the gov'ts inability to handle it's own business. Unfortunately you also miss the point, given that (predictably) I'm approaching this from a socialist standpoint. Capital is just a meaningless social construct. The resources exist to help people, put them to use, don't leave them sitting around in a Swiss bank account for a man already "worth" more than 99% of the human race to make even more money off it and just go on and use to make even more money, and then use that money to make even more money than that, (repeat ad nauseam). You have no point, other than the promotion of Socialism, which seems to fail every time... Except the "real" version of it has mysteriously never been tried before. I hope when you mature, you find that people making and saving as much money, again legally, as possible is not a bad thing. You forcing people to fork over their legally acquired money, be it at the barrel of a gun in some aspects, is about as wrong as it gets. Capital is not a meaningless social construct, it is tangible and used for more than 'fattening up the richest of the rich'. I will never comprehend your absolute disdain for people making money for themselves. |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 16:21:28 GMT
Well for a start to its employees, who are already treated awfully. On a larger scale, to society in general. They're a huge source of wealth that it is never used, it should be tapped into to help the community at large. They're a part of the community as much as a private citizen is, they ought to do their most to advance the interests of the many. Of course they won't, because they care nothing for actually helping anybody. Treated awfully? They are paid for their work and provided benefits that are substantial. Private businesses have no obligation to provide anything to the community, hell they already provide thousands upon thousands of jobs and services to over one hundred million people. |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:23:34 GMT
Unfortunately you also miss the point, given that (predictably) I'm approaching this from a socialist standpoint. Capital is just a meaningless social construct. The resources exist to help people, put them to use, don't leave them sitting around in a Swiss bank account for a man already "worth" more than 99% of the human race to make even more money off it and just go on and use to make even more money, and then use that money to make even more money than that, (repeat ad nauseam). You have no point, other than the promotion of Socialism, which seems to fail every time... Except the "real" version of it has mysteriously never been tried before. I hope when you mature, you find that people making and saving as much money, again legally, as possible is not a bad thing. You forcing people to fork over their legally acquired money, be it at the barrel of a gun in some aspects, is about as wrong as it gets. Capital is not a meaningless social construct, it is tangible and used for more than 'fattening up the richest of the rich'. I will never comprehend your absolute disdain for people making money for themselves. On the one hand we have a man who owns billions of dollars, operating in the same city where many starve on the streets. Nobody can be trusted to help people out of the goodness of their heart, so money should be raised to help them instead. The freedom of a business is no more valuable than the freedom of people from starvation and homelessness, and would not be adversely affected in righting the situation. I'll just ignore the rest of what you said, it's hardly helpful. |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
Faith, King, Empire
President for Life
The cause of labour is the hope of the world
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Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:06:06 GMT
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:26:31 GMT
Well for a start to its employees, who are already treated awfully. On a larger scale, to society in general. They're a huge source of wealth that it is never used, it should be tapped into to help the community at large. They're a part of the community as much as a private citizen is, they ought to do their most to advance the interests of the many. Of course they won't, because they care nothing for actually helping anybody. Treated awfully? They are paid for their work and provided benefits that are substantial. Private businesses have no obligation to provide anything to the community, hell they already provide thousands upon thousands of jobs and services to over one hundred million people. What, the people that work for Amazon should be grateful that they work in conditions that refuse to let them have toilet breaks, and that have resulted in mental health issues, in order that they can prevent themselves from falling into destitution and pauperism? Cool. Being paid just enough to get by is not "substantial benefits". |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 16:27:17 GMT
You have no point, other than the promotion of Socialism, which seems to fail every time... Except the "real" version of it has mysteriously never been tried before. I hope when you mature, you find that people making and saving as much money, again legally, as possible is not a bad thing. You forcing people to fork over their legally acquired money, be it at the barrel of a gun in some aspects, is about as wrong as it gets. Capital is not a meaningless social construct, it is tangible and used for more than 'fattening up the richest of the rich'. I will never comprehend your absolute disdain for people making money for themselves. On the one hand we have a man who owns billions of dollars, operating in the same city where many starve on the streets. Nobody can be trusted to help people out of the goodness of their heart, so money should be raised to help them instead. The freedom of a business is no more valuable than the freedom of people from starvation and homelessness, and would not be adversely affected in righting the situation. I'll just ignore the rest of what you said, it's hardly helpful. You ignore it because you have nothing to counter it with. But it's ok, I expect that from you. Money should not be forced from private companies to fill the massive gaps that the government created out of it's own fiscal irresponsibility. |
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DerailedWingnut
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 15, 2018 16:28:36 GMT
Unfortunately you miss the point. There is no such thing as "excess profits". That's the purpose of private businesses, to make as much money as quickly, legally and efficiently as possible. When the gov't says a private company makes too much money and should "pay their fair share", the company should leave that area and seek life elsewhere. The gov't is, in effect, holding that successful private business hostage to pay for the gov'ts inability to handle it's own business. Unfortunately you also miss the point, given that (predictably) I'm approaching this from a socialist standpoint. Capital is just a meaningless social construct. The resources exist to help people, put them to use, don't leave them sitting around in a Swiss bank account for a man already "worth" more than 99% of the human race to make even more money off it and just go on and use to make even more money, and then use that money to make even more money than that, (repeat ad nauseam). What's the point of starting a business then if you're not supposed to reap the rewards? I understand if you are specifically in the business to help people, but otherwise why should you be forced to give up profits to help people? The point of a business is to make money, and if you start forcing businesses to give up the extra money they earn, people will stop starting businesses. I understand that's it's not "moral", but if I'm not specifically in the business to help people, I would keep my extra profits, unless donating a portion of it gets me a better tax break that is. It all comes back to the idea that forcing people to help people only hurts people. Why start a business if you get no rewards from it other than you feel good about yourself? If there's no incentive to do things the hard way, then people will always take the easier way. Which would mean less people supporting the system, and more people being supported by the system. |
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 15, 2018 16:28:43 GMT
Treated awfully? They are paid for their work and provided benefits that are substantial. Private businesses have no obligation to provide anything to the community, hell they already provide thousands upon thousands of jobs and services to over one hundred million people. What, the people that work for Amazon should be grateful that they work in conditions that refuse to let them have toilet breaks, and that have resulted in mental health issues, in order that they can prevent themselves from falling into destitution and pauperism? Cool. Being paid just enough to get by is not "substantial benefits". Isn't the average salary at Amazon $60K?.... Granted 'pickers' in the warehouses make around $30K, plus benefits... Still that's hardly being left out to starve. Citations would be nice for your claims, by the way. |
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
Captain
Faith, King, Empire
President for Life
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Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 17:06:06 GMT
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 15, 2018 16:29:50 GMT
On the one hand we have a man who owns billions of dollars, operating in the same city where many starve on the streets. Nobody can be trusted to help people out of the goodness of their heart, so money should be raised to help them instead. The freedom of a business is no more valuable than the freedom of people from starvation and homelessness, and would not be adversely affected in righting the situation. I'll just ignore the rest of what you said, it's hardly helpful. You ignore it because you have nothing to counter it with. But it's ok, I expect that from you. Money should not be forced from private companies to fill the massive gaps that the government created out of it's own fiscal irresponsibility. Just saying that "being left-wing is for angsty teenagers" (paraphrasing, obviously) is not an argument and isn't worthy of being countered. |
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