Ron James Dio
Lieutenant
Posts: 829 
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Date registered: Mar 29, 2016 12:57:01 GMT
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Post by Ron James Dio on Nov 29, 2019 11:21:04 GMT
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Nov 29, 2019 14:06:12 GMT
To be fair, how many of those plane kills were fighters?
Plus, both Kaga and Enterprise have a buffed plane regen rate. Had it been any of the other tier 8 CVs you likely would have been fine.
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ZER01025
Captain
Posts: 1,196
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Console: Xbox 360 & One
Clan tag: BNKR
Is R35T a Skreb?: No
Date registered: Mar 1, 2016 14:07:16 GMT
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Post by ZER01025 on Nov 29, 2019 17:08:48 GMT
I agree with Kaito. I think the CVs just got lucky in that match. They also might be better than your average CV player too. Maybe they're used to dodging the new AA. Doubt it will be a trend. It's really easy to fly within AA range of a plane and lose planes to AA. Do this a few times and your deck is empty and your waiting 60 seconds or so for your planes to spawn. While you're waiting your teams talking smack saying how useless you are.
I feel the way you do sometimes when I play DDs and get rocketed and bombed to death within the first 5 minutes. Its rare but it happens, and I understand it used to be worse before they nerfed the crap out of the CVs so I don't let it bother me.
Remember Hakeryu used to be able to make those crazy multi drops of torps.
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Ron James Dio
Lieutenant
Posts: 829
Likes: 707
Date registered: Mar 29, 2016 12:57:01 GMT
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Post by Ron James Dio on Nov 30, 2019 7:51:06 GMT
I had 0 fighter kills. If a CV has an "accelerated regen rate" that allows it extreme losses and it still has planes, full squadrons too, then it is not able to be realistically deplaned. How many did we need to shoot down before they started to "run out?" 200? 250?
Pre rework, if you were an AA cruiser and you shot down the enemy's entire flight of squadrons, they could do nothing for around 2 minutes. I have yet to see a CV "deplaned".
Like I said, I am all for them, people like them and I think its cool to shoot down planes, but 176 shot down and they still had full squadrons in the game? Thats ridiculous
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Nov 30, 2019 14:09:19 GMT
I had 0 fighter kills. If a CV has an "accelerated regen rate" that allows it extreme losses and it still has planes, full squadrons too, then it is not able to be realistically deplaned. How many did we need to shoot down before they started to "run out?" 200? 250? Pre rework, if you were an AA cruiser and you shot down the enemy's entire flight of squadrons, they could do nothing for around 2 minutes. I have yet to see a CV "deplaned". Like I said, I am all for them, people like them and I think its cool to shoot down planes, but 176 shot down and they still had full squadrons in the game? Thats ridiculous Again, you shot down no fighters, but I almost guarantee that half of the total plane kills were fighters, from both the CVs and surface ships. At least that has been my experience. If it was all strike planes, there is absolutely no way even Enterprise and Kaga can field even half squadrons at the end. One of the tricks I've heard of from good CV players is to drop a fighter squad on top of an AA ship they're attacking to absorb some of the AA damage from the strike planes. |
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Ron James Dio
Lieutenant
Posts: 829
Likes: 707
Date registered: Mar 29, 2016 12:57:01 GMT
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Post by Ron James Dio on Nov 30, 2019 20:56:15 GMT
Fair enough, I'll take your word for it! I have no idea how many fighters the Mass and others shot down. I didnt realise that everyone drops the fighter consumable or whatever they are now to block AA. All I faced that game were attack squadrons, and a full torp squad killed me 15 minutes into the game.
I havent played the new carriers, I traded all my old lines in, so I'll take your word for it!
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Major Englush
Sergeant
Posts: 367
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Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Date registered: Feb 22, 2017 15:11:28 GMT
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Post by Major Englush on Dec 3, 2019 10:07:41 GMT
Airplanes have no business in what is supposed to be a surface naval warfare game. There is a reason battleships don't exist anymore in real life.
There is literally no way to balance them. At all. Ever.
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ZER01025
Captain
Posts: 1,196
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Console: Xbox 360 & One
Clan tag: BNKR
Is R35T a Skreb?: No
Date registered: Mar 1, 2016 14:07:16 GMT
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Post by ZER01025 on Dec 3, 2019 15:36:22 GMT
I think they balanced them pretty well Major English. They balanced them to the point to they are pretty unenjoyable to play in my opinion. They are fun up until tier 6, then after that I felt like a glorified spotter plane.
Yes torpedoes are a pain but have you noticed the damage the torps do is minimal? I don't really sweat much when hit becuase they never do that much damage. So it does take a few runs to completely kill you. Can't cross drop at the same time like before either, instead you might be able to attack from one side then other on the next pass (but you will lose more planes this way).
Bombers are a pain to just try to wiggle enough so they can't get a good hit on you. The same kinda goes for rockets.
You're going up the British BB line so you will eventually have a Conq. A ship I avoided as a CV player. Look at my stats dude, at one time I was a CV main. Now I just play them to complete directives. I quit playing them becuase T10 sucked balls and cost me even when I won. My "wins" never felt good either. I hated being the last one alive to die a slow death just farming damage. Also I hated that I'm basicly just an annoying spotter plane. Thankfully I was able to make the most of the rework by selling my CVs. Since then I've kinda become anti CV. I got a Wooster and a Mino and even started playing DDs and BBs alot more. Two classes I completely hated to play before!
All in all I don't mind them so much anymore. I salute the people who play them and wonder how they deal with AA in higher tiers. CVs were a major player in WWII and it would be silly to make a naval combat game based in WWII without them. I enjoy shooting them down and I think it adds extra excitement to my game. If subs are added they will be more appriciated, as long as they can actually spot them.
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Major Englush
Sergeant
Posts: 367
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Console: Xbox
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Is R35T a Skreb?: Yes
Date registered: Feb 22, 2017 15:11:28 GMT
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Post by Major Englush on Dec 3, 2019 16:41:37 GMT
As a cruiser main, CVs don't bother me personally. FEED ME PLANES!!  But, in general, they are just bad for the game. They have taken over the spotting role from DDs, a good CV player can wreck an entire enemy team no matter the tier, and they have exactly zero counterplay. It has also made lower tiers damn near unplayable, as there are two CVs in nearly every game fighting ships that LITERALLY have no AA. I wonder how many new players have just given up, much like they do in tanks when they come across U.S. Sextons and M44s every game in lower tiers. Granted, the old system was even worse, IMHO, as the skill gap was HUGE and a bad CV player guaranteed your team a loss. But at least you had a CV vs CV element, and could send planes against the enemy CV (which is now a death sentence for your squads thanks to auto-launched fighters that last for like 6 minutes and the absurd AA they carry). There really, really needs to be a hard limit on planes like the old system, much more of a penalty if you have an entire squad get wiped out, and any ships spotted should only be spotted for the CV, not his/her/its entire team. Those three simple changes would make CV play more bearable for everyone else. ADDING: I only play CVs in co-op just to see what they are like. And I completely, unequivocally S U C K A S S in them. So I'm not saying they are easy mode like arty. They aren't. That I will agree. I just...I dunno. Not a fan. That being typed, the whole point of the rebork was to get more folks playing the class. So, by that metric, WG has succeeded. |
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Ron James Dio
Lieutenant
Posts: 829
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Date registered: Mar 29, 2016 12:57:01 GMT
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Post by Ron James Dio on Dec 3, 2019 18:56:09 GMT
The skill gap is the same it always was. There is no slow skill curve in CV's, there never was and there never will be, pre-rework or no. People had hoped (Wargaming too) that this rework would make the class more beginner friendly and easier to play for the newer players. It didn't. All the rework succeeded in doing was changing what the gap related to. Unicums dominate games in CV's the same as they always did, and the games where the enemy CV is a unicum and yours is not is just as painful as it was prerework.
Look at how the rework progressed during its course. WG had to keep altering the class because at every turn, the top 1% found a new way to exploit the class somehow. Hak stealth Shimakaze and the slingshot being great examples, resulting in the nerf to flooding mechanics. There will always be a major skill gap. Newer players will always struggle against the Unicums. It doesn't matter what the ship class is, CV, cruiser, BB, probably subs too. Within a few days of the sub drop, there will be unicums who immediately find ways of exploiting the classes strengths and they will bash on the ones still learning it , especially at lower tiers.
I don't know if the rework really succeeded in making the class more user friendly. I still see many games with a CV struggling to get any sort of meaningful damage, especially in the higher tiers, which seems to be why the CV population is so much more focused on tiers 4-6. Which in turn makes it unfun for the lower tier ships with no AA who have almost no hope of defending themselves. New players in tiers 3, 4, 5 and 6 get farmed by seal clubbing CV main's who want easier damage, and less of a loss playing their class. The issue of new players getting stomped by skilled, experienced players in CV's is still there, all they did was remove fighter support and the anti CV aspect of Aircraft Carrier play.
This is all my own opinion of course, just some observations I made during the rework and after. Like I said, there are many people who like the class, I don't believe they should be removed and I do enjoy having them in game in many aspects. Pre-rework, if you loaded up a Cleveland specced for AA, you were a literal no-fly zone for a CV, no matter how skilled. There was no slingshot drop to get past the guns, no fighter drop to absorb some damage. Those planes hit a brick wall and exploded. Whole flight groups gone, which could not be replaced no matter how long you waited. CV's could, and would be deplaned trying to attack an AA specced ship and when that happened, they were screwed. It forced smarter target selection and deterred the cross drops, sometimes even protecting friendly ships by sheer threat of losses alone. I enjoyed that personally a whole lot more, because it made my AA specced ships seem to make a difference to my allies, and it made me think twice about what my targets were and what was around them when I was sailing a CV.
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Our team shot down a combined 176 planes this match. That roughly equals 88 planes per CV, I was killed just about 15 minutes into the match by a full torpedo bomber squadron. I spent this entire match attempting to WASD hack, shooting down as many planes as I could, taking random, hastily aimed potshots when I actually had any time between air attacks to line up a shot, and my turrets actually had time to aim. I also attempted to provide some covering AA for our DD's who were hounded by rocket and bomb planes, and were shredded within a short time. Pre-rework CV's had a maximum hanger capacity of 72. We would have completely deplaned both CV's 10 minutes into the game had this been pre-rework. At the end of the game the Enterprise still had squadrons of planes in the air. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind there being CV's in game, but they shouldn't have a single plane left after losing 176 combined aircraft, they never would have before.
