El Materdor43
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Post by El Materdor43 on May 28, 2019 14:34:29 GMT
Some things here: A. I wasn’t unemployed. I put the term bi-vocational in there. I worked the graveyard shift, 11p to 7a, cane home and slept an hour or so when I had my own work to do. The night job paid lass than half of what I could ordinarily make, which made things tight financially. B. Tax cuts. Let’s be very clear here. The government is NOT a for profit agency. It levies taxes to provide for ESSENTIAL services. The key word here is service. The founders of this country never envisioned government as a means to sustain folks. If you go back and look, churches provided for widows and orphans and folks who weren’t able to provide for themselves. That wasn’t ever a government thing. The government here in the US is far too big. Reduced revenues? I’m sorry, that’s wrong. Look at the Reagan admin. They cut taxes and in the ensuing next few years revenues were up by a good bit www.heritage.org/taxes/report/the-real-reagan-economic-record-responsible-and-successful-fiscal-policyTax cuts provide incentive for businesses to reinvest, which leads to expansion. Expansion means a larger work force. Larger work force means more people paying taxes, which means more on revenues. Thanks for clarification and openness regarding your personal situation. I haven't studied the specifics of the historical US budgets. Reagan is very well regarded by economists when it comes to successful economic management during his terms. Going on memory here, Maggie was taking on the Coal Miners and pissing them off, Gorbochov(Sorry if misspelled) was leading the isolationist and uncooperative Soviet union and the Cold War was an extension of Superpower Egos gone mad. Working class folks here had had enough of Fraser and Sent Hawke in. These were definitely times when Media bias affected information and understanding of what was going on in the world. I have no idea who was leading West Germany. I think the soviets boycotted the LA Olympics in the same year that The Terminator hit the big screen. The reason for them doing that was because the USA had boycotted the Moscow Olympics 4 years earlier and that was in protest of the Soviets invading Afghanistan. Anyway The world owes a lot to Reagan's brand of international relations. It involved encouraging another "superpower" to Tear down a Wall. who historically for 40 years or more had been combatant and hostile to the Western values and policies of which the US President represented. Gorbochov's role of course was instrumental in seeing reason an dismantling the Soviet Union but to think that he respected Reagan enough to work with him is pretty impressive on Reagan's part. Trust needs to be earned and both leaders took the Risk and it paid off. Yet again, I digress. My revenue comment was relating to the nation Debt. It still needs to be paid off. The tax situation and Social Reforms and impact to the Economy, I don't have an appreciation of how changes impacted every US citizen. I stand by my comment about Obama's management of the Economy based on the indicators. There is a lot of social injustice in the USA. That's one of those wishy washy concepts which is really difficult to appreciate. Everyone has the right to education and the right to make a go of it, I think. People just need to put effort in and get off their lazy arses or lazy donkey's as the Americans say, sorry, asses. They've only got themselves to blame right? Wrong! There's a good lot of people who are disenfranchised and caught in an intergenerational rut of no hope and crime. Privelege is not egalitarian. Yes - plenty of greedy and lazy people who do have themselves to blame as well. Every opportunity who like to play the victim too. We hear stories at this end from the possibly biased media suggesting Crime rates increase prior to the winter because Prison is more comfortable or people who are unemployed getting knocked by a subway train, pleading not to be treated citing reason as inability to afford it. I don't know how true it is. Where there's smoke there's fire though. Why would these people have any respect or love of the nation? Relating that welfare is not the responsibility of governments There is an economic cost of the impact of these people , Crime - incarceration, cash jobs, exploited as slave labour and there is benefit of breaking the cycle. Obama's ideology was to empower the next generation of Americans, through government backed initiatives set up to empower them. Providing additional privilege to those who seemingly have it in the first place at the expense of other Americans is never going to be popular, it's debatable whether it's a sunk cost and waste or the Government has a mandate of creating systems which protect the welfare of all of it's citizens. Test Its not the government job to empower anyone. Each person should be motivated by their owns goals and dreams. Each person striving towards goals that they determine and set is one of the cornerstones of individual liberty and freedom. It is exactly what the framers of the constitution had in mind when that document was crafted. Government has no business insuring outcomes. Their job is to insure that everyone has the same shot, period. Empowerment is another way to say, in my opinion, that the government puts their collective thumb on the scale to favor one group over another
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El Materdor43
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Post by El Materdor43 on May 28, 2019 15:02:44 GMT
Test I just read something from your last post and I must say I’m dumbfounded. You said there is a lot of social injustice in the US. The constitution and the Declaratuon of Independence ensure those things don’t happen. “all men(people) are created equal” www.ushistory.org/Declaration/documentSocial Justice, in my opinion, is when a person or a group requests/demands that they be given special consideration due to them/he/she being a demographic minority of some type. This should never happen. All people should be judged on the content of their character, just as Dr King spells out. Social injustice occurs in the US when the minority is given special rights/privileges due to their minority status. I treat everyone equally without prejudice. I apologize folks, subject is derailed.
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DerailedWingnut
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 28, 2019 15:24:32 GMT
I apologize folks, subject is derailed. You called?
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El Materdor43
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Post by El Materdor43 on May 28, 2019 15:29:31 GMT
Let’s get back on topic. Jester, you can create a thread where we can bash Obama
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 29, 2019 2:21:01 GMT
I disagree with your economic assessment. www.usgovernmentspending.com/I'm not an economist but your assessment is hardly fair or correct in relation to the Economy and in my opinion how Obama was seen on the international stage and whether that is of benefit as well is just wrong. I can really only speak of Australia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia–United_States_relations I don't think Obama got on very well with Israel. He visited India, reportedly respected by the Queen of England. When it comes to the Economy You need to realise Obama inherited an economy where the budget deficit was somewhere around 10% of GDP and circumstance which was a total economic nightmare known as the GFC. Something like 1.500 billion dollars of deficit. You can blame the banking sector and whatever it was which governed that for the recession. Peoples lives are going to be destroyed by that shit. You blame Obama for that??? Confidence in the economy grew with Obama and the Deficit was steadily reduced. The economy was far healthier than what was inherited. Regulation was required to prevent that shit from happening again. Money was required to try and inject stimuli. Bush knew it, Obama Knew it. Investors had no faith in Bush's ability to handle it. It's why the markets grew overnight when Obama took Office. That is good for the economy and so was Obama's management of the aftermath of the crisis. Yes Debt crew but seriously, how would you have sorted it? You don't appear to have even understood it. Obama should be taken to task over inappropriate use of US funds. Blame the banking sector for poor governance and lending money to people who couldn't afford it and government bail outfor the economic down turn which screwed peoples lives. That required at least a 700 billion dollar investment and some ongoing investment into the economy plus some serious regulation to start the slow climb forward. People were seriously hurting and probably still are. Without Obama, it would have been far far worse in my view and the mechanisms would not have prevented it from happening it again. Like him or hate him, take him to task about a few billion if he did the wrong thing but Obama did well under the circumstances and the economy is much healthier as a result. No, it isn’t. Obama policies throttled the economy here. Over regulation and his decision to try to bankrupt the coal industry, as he did his best to regulate them out of existence. Additionally, his EPA unilaterally decided to increase the COPA of the automobile industry here in the US, which would add anywhere from 20 to 40% to the sticker price of new cars. That would stifle the auto industry. And also, the stock market benefitted greatly from Quantitive Easing, the government propping up the stock market by either borrowing money from the fed or just printing it. I want to take a minute to talk about the economy the Obama inherited. It wasn’t great but let’s look at the root cause of why is went sideways. In 1977, under Jimmy Carter, congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act. It mandated that banks had to make a certain percentage of their loans in places and to people who may not be able to repay it. That policy got put on steroids by the Clinton administration in the form of criminal penalty to banks that didn’t loan money to basically anyone who applied for it, specifically home mortgages. When those folks who were given loans couldn’t pay, more and more banks were stuck with repo’d homes, aka worthless securities. They were forced to try to sell those to recoup some of their investment. After a period of time, those securities are no longer worth the risk of investment. Therefore we were treated to the housing bubble that burst in 2008. Some of that was possibly embellished as the Treasury Sec at the time, Hank Paulson, went to President Bush with news that the treasury was looking at running out of money within a 24 hour period due to so many people/entities demanding payment of government backed notes. It created a run on the treasury and as it was phrased in the media, the treasury closed the window, thusly creating financial panic. I do give some fault to the Bush admin but the Obama folks didn’t do anything to fix the problem. In fact they extended the bank bailout program to include almost every financial institution in this country, even if those banks were on sound footing. Those policies extended the financial crisis here. They did nothing to help From my end, i'll concede that I have a limited perspective on world economics let alone US economics and the finer points I'm not equipped to debate. I'm not an economist. This is a discussion which divides economists though and it's mostly speculation by them with their considerable skillset. We can debate it and I'd like to think I'm relatively neutral but ultimately it's my opinion versus yours and no doubt other strong republican supporters here and if economists can't decide on what is, we certainly can't. The WN8 of economic performance is EPI, well it's not really but like WN8, it is a latent variable intended to represent economic health and be comparative regardless of the scale of the economy. Whether that latent variable is valid or not as a reasonable assessment, I don't know. Here's a listing of US Economy health ratings during various presidential terms up to 2016.. 5minuteeconomist.com/which-presidents-were-best-and-worst-for-the-us-economy.html. The EPI puts Obama ranked 10th, FDR 1st, Reagan 6th and Clinton 9th Here's an assessment of the US Economic health as it stood through 2016 5minuteeconomist.com/countries/united-states.htmlChange in EPI by year by country. 5minuteeconomist.com/countries/countries-explore-the-data-2.htmlThat provides a comparative score against a certain set of criteria and it's interesting to see how the numbers for the US fare during global crisis relative to other countries impacted during the same period. This is not intended to be bias or proof of anything on my part. Like I said, I have my opinion and belief but concede I am not qualified to push the issue beyond that.
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 29, 2019 3:04:54 GMT
Let me translate: Test is a poor with communication Test is not pro democrat or pro republican Test gets distracted easily A comment was made that it is not the Government's responsibility to provide welfare. When it comes to welfare and distribution of wealth in an effort to equalise the "privilege" equation. Those of low socio economic status tend to feature heavily in blue collar crime and prison and are not empowered to break free of the cycle due to their environment and a host of other reasons which limit successful outcomes. It's quite tragic. This is quite costly. The cycle of disadvantage needs to be broken and that too is costly and there's a balance equation somewhere in the middle when it comes to investing money and resources and the return(if indeed there is any) is only likely to be realised in a decade or so.
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 29, 2019 4:47:22 GMT
Test I just read something from your last post and I must say I’m dumbfounded. You said there is a lot of social injustice in the US. The constitution and the Declaratuon of Independence ensure those things don’t happen. “all men(people) are created equal” www.ushistory.org/Declaration/documentSocial Justice, in my opinion, is when a person or a group requests/demands that they be given special consideration due to them/he/she being a demographic minority of some type. This should never happen. All people should be judged on the content of their character, just as Dr King spells out. Social injustice occurs in the US when the minority is given special rights/privileges due to their minority status. I totally get where you are coming from. For a long time, I felt people,regardless of how they started out in life have the ability to choose to better themselves and the fact that they don't is because the systems allow them not to by being too charitable and it's just lazy people blaming others for their predicament expecting the world to owe them a living. There's no doubt there's some people like that. The delusion by people like myself is that these people have received the same social opportunities that empowers me to do that so they just need to make the right choices, get off their arses and stop blaming others. It's not that simple. It's a very difficult thing to comprehend that a proportion of the cause is far more complex and external to them but that doesn't mean that's not the case.
Like you, I try not to discriminate and I like to think of myself as treating all people equally. The reality for me is that I tend to overcompensate for prejudices of my own and don't treat people equally. Women I treat differently to men, kids I treat differently to adults, attractive people, I treat differently to ugly people, homeless people I treat differently to rich people, foreign people, I treat differently to Australians.
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 29, 2019 9:22:42 GMT
Let’s get back on topic. Jester, you can create a thread where we can bash Obama Probably one for Snore but is this topic intended for talking about Russian bias and plausible untruths in relation to Trump reportedly cooked up by the Dems or Trumps relationship with Russia since he has one or does it separate Russia from Trump so all things Russia or Trump related including policy are OK? Trump isn't always about bashing Obama, in 2018 he was reportedly talking up Obama speeches as a drug friendly remedy for people with sleep problems, when asked about the effectiveness of Obama's speeches; "I fell asleep,” he said. “I found he’s very good, very good for sleeping.” Interesting to know he found it relaxing and soothing and we all know how important a good nights sleep is to our health and well being. Thanks for sharing with us Mr Trump.
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"statistically insignificant"
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Post by "statistically insignificant" on May 29, 2019 19:11:17 GMT
Lolololol!!! Good to see nothing has changed. Heads are tightly up asses just as they were.....MAGA!!
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Post by Snorelacks on May 29, 2019 20:35:13 GMT
Lolololol!!! Good to see nothing has changed. Heads are tightly up asses just as they were.....MAGA!! Well, well, well...look what we have here...a rare sighting of the genus "Trumpderangementsyndromeasauraus"...known to be easily triggered at the mere mention of HiLIARy Clinton's 2016 election loss, any visible proof of a good economy or at the slightest inference that Jussie Smollett lied like a Persian rug. Upon said triggering, may resort to calling others racists. If sighted, please provide video proof...otherwise they'll be classified with Sasquatch or the Yeti.
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 30, 2019 4:23:13 GMT
Would it be appropriate to bring Julian Assange into the discussion here and his role in exposing corruption through wiki leaks? Like Trump, Hillary Clinton accused him of colluding with the Russians too. Is that her go to attack methodology?
He's not an American so I don't know whether the 1st amendment applies and allows him freedoms to publish what he published or even if he was an American, it would be appropriate. That begs the question as to who decides the extent of freedom of the press. It doesn't take a genius to understand that it's in the countries best interest not to have complete transparency when it comes to some goings on but where is that line?
Did the information published by Assange have any impact on Election Results and unravelling corruption? How impacting was any of it on US national security and how will Trump's administration prosecute if at all? Will the outcome change the way "freedom of the Press" is viewed?
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 30, 2019 6:28:02 GMT
Lolololol!!! Good to see nothing has changed. Heads are tightly up asses just as they were.....MAGA!! The slightest inference that Jussie Smollett lied like a Persian rug. Upon said triggering, may resort to calling others racists. If sighted, please provide video proof...otherwise they'll be classified with Sasquatch or the Yeti. Sasquatch is from Canada and Yeti from the Himalayas. How did they become more popular in the US instead of the local versions of similar creatures? I tell you, the Yowie is a victim of racism.
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defiantspurr
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Post by defiantspurr on May 30, 2019 9:09:11 GMT
Someone mention Thatcher? **Puts on his unpopular opinions hat**
The Thatcher government inherited a broken country, what a lot of people don't realise is that our coal and heavy industry had been failing for decades. We just could not compete against cheap foreign imports. The British government had been struggling to keep the mines open since the early 1900s, and to be honest it was only things like the two world wars that kept them going for as long as they did. That said, I don't condone or support a lot of what the government did, but we have this terrible ability to give in to a rose tinted dilusion of how great Britain was before the 1970s.
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 30, 2019 11:31:17 GMT
Someone mention Thatcher? **Puts on his unpopular opinions hat** The Thatcher government inherited a broken country, what a lot of people don't realise is that our coal and heavy industry had been failing for decades. We just could not compete against cheap foreign imports. The British government had been struggling to keep the mines open since the early 1900s, and to be honest it was only things like the two world wars that kept them going for as long as they did. That said, I don't condone or support a lot of what the government did, but we have this terrible ability to give in to a rose tinted dilusion of how great Britain was before the 1970s. The Wilson government closed more mines than Thatcher because they were willing to talk to the NUM about it. Thatcher's and her government's actions were a conscious attempt to crush the country's largest trade union. Trade unions are the basis of working class organisation and Thatcher knew it, for her new brand of economics to work she had to crush the unions first.
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Snorelacks
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Post by Snorelacks on May 30, 2019 12:46:03 GMT
The slightest inference that Jussie Smollett lied like a Persian rug. Upon said triggering, may resort to calling others racists. If sighted, please provide video proof...otherwise they'll be classified with Sasquatch or the Yeti. Sasquatch is from Canada and Yeti from the Himalayas. How did they become more popular in the US instead of the local versions of similar creatures? I tell you, the Yowie is a victim of racism. I think Sasquatch (aka Bigfoot) is both a US and Canadian creature. I'd classify them with the elusive, but ever dangerous Drop Bear.
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Post by JesterUSMC on May 30, 2019 14:06:18 GMT
Lolololol!!! Good to see nothing has changed. Heads are tightly up asses just as they were.....MAGA!! Who kicked his rock and disturbed this dipshits slumber? Notice no counter points or anything coming from him, just insults. Almost like he has nothing to contribute.
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 31, 2019 2:43:38 GMT
Someone mention Thatcher? **Puts on his unpopular opinions hat** The Thatcher government inherited a broken country, what a lot of people don't realise is that our coal and heavy industry had been failing for decades. We just could not compete against cheap foreign imports. The British government had been struggling to keep the mines open since the early 1900s, and to be honest it was only things like the two world wars that kept them going for as long as they did. That said, I don't condone or support a lot of what the government did, but we have this terrible ability to give in to a rose tinted dilusion of how great Britain was before the 1970s. I probably mentioned Thatcher. I'm a bit biased in regard to her brand of politics. Never had much time for union who tend to forget what fair and reasonable means and push employees to bankruptcy. On the other hand, i've never had much time for exploitive employers either. The way I see it, the industry was not profitable and sustainable, Maggie wasn't trying to hurt coal miners by closing some mines, but the Union action response was the catalyst for what happened next and families suffered. That's my bias on it anyway. Yes rose coloured glasses are for some reason, something we all don as we age. Every generation has it's version of the good ol'e days. Except memories of childhood because lets face it, our rose coloured glasses show us that the kids of today have it pretty easy, relative to our childhood.
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 31, 2019 9:43:15 GMT
Sasquatch is from Canada and Yeti from the Himalayas. How did they become more popular in the US instead of the local versions of similar creatures? I tell you, the Yowie is a victim of racism. I think Sasquatch (aka Bigfoot) is both a US and Canadian creature. I'd classify them with the elusive, but ever dangerous Drop Bear. Really off topic here, I wanted a spoiler section. This doesn't even relate to politics. To clarify my position, I'm just playin' around with the racist thing. Where I was coming from with my in jest comment was the Yeti and the Sasquatch are the big foots of their regions. Sasquatch is a what it was called by one of the Canadian first peoples nations I believe. The First peoples of the USA have their own words for big foot creatures in their legends but American people don't tend to use them. Sasquatch gets used instead but there is a reason for that and it's how the new world American's were introduced to the concept of the creature first and it and it's name was brought south and adopted instead of the local tribal names of the US region. Essentially an intelligent homonid of relatively giant proportions which walks straight and upright, covered in course hair and far larger and stronger than a human is commonly part of first peoples lore globally. In parts of Australia it's the Yowie. I think in the Ural regions of Asia it's known as the Almasti and there's a plethora of others. While myths and legends of such creature seem to span the globe, No Archeological evidence of such creatures exist. The Drop Bear myth...is interesting. The Thylacoleonidae family of carniverous marsupials of which one, Carnifax has many things in common with the modern day "myth" has archeological evidence to say it existed. Essentially 100+ kilograms of muscle, tooth and Claw, not built for running but very much carnivorous and an Ambush marsupial, believed to prey on larger animals. Scientists believe it to have died out about 45,000 years ago which meant for about 10,000 years people and this thing were mixing it up but we haven't come across evidence of one for a while. Whether they are still out there or not, who knows but there's a lot of wilderness. It is actually very dangerous lingering under some eucalyptus trees and the danger does comes from above. Many sudden deaths from unseen dangers above caused by Ghost Gums. Nicknamed Widow Makers due to their tendency to shed rather heavy branches with little to no warning and killing whatever was seeking shade below. Back on topic - has Hillary been impeached yet?
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test777777
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Post by test777777 on May 31, 2019 9:54:16 GMT
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on May 31, 2019 10:31:32 GMT
Someone mention Thatcher? **Puts on his unpopular opinions hat** The Thatcher government inherited a broken country, what a lot of people don't realise is that our coal and heavy industry had been failing for decades. We just could not compete against cheap foreign imports. The British government had been struggling to keep the mines open since the early 1900s, and to be honest it was only things like the two world wars that kept them going for as long as they did. That said, I don't condone or support a lot of what the government did, but we have this terrible ability to give in to a rose tinted dilusion of how great Britain was before the 1970s. I probably mentioned Thatcher. I'm a bit biased in regard to her brand of politics. Never had much time for union who tend to forget what fair and reasonable means and push employees to bankruptcy. On the other hand, i've never had much time for exploitive employers either. The way I see it, the industry was not profitable and sustainable, Maggie wasn't trying to hurt coal miners by closing some mines, but the Union action response was the catalyst for what happened next and families suffered. That's my bias on it anyway. Of course, NUM action was questionable in a lot of cases, but I don't think it's quite right to say Thatcher was trying to just close mines and the NUM reacted wrongly to it. Wilson closed more mines than Thatcher, the difference is Thatcher knew there would be and prepared for a confrontation with the miners. Stockpiling coal beforehand and bringing in MacGregor to head the NCB would suggest that she knew there would be a confrontation and wanted it crushed. Police action was far more brutal than was necessary and the aftermath of Thatcher's actions left ex-coal mining areas destitute. A lot of the north and Wales stills suffers from it.
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