Corporal Derpy
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Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 16:58:35 GMT
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 23, 2018 22:14:32 GMT
So I imagine most of the Shitbox frequenters know why this is coming around, maybe those who go around but don't browse the Shitbox have missed it in which case I can either provide the full thing or simply sum it up as. A rather enjoyable disagreement with the ELC. Now I've not tried to hide it, but I also never went into every discussion about the tank shouting it, I hated the original ELC and thought it horribly unbalanced. The tank simply outperformed its opposing Lights at V by a huge margin and had some absurd stats. It got 170 AP pen, the only tanks that come close and/or surpass that are the S35 CA mounting the 105mm, the Archer with the 17pdr and the Flak Bus mounting the 8.8cm L/94, just take note of the fact that the only tanks with anywhere near the same pen are all TD's. Then when you pressed A you now got 248 pen at Tier V. Add on to this high alpha for the tier, one of the most mobile tanks in the game, one of the smallest tanks in the game and yeah you get an OP Monstrosity. So understandably it got nerfed, one of the heaviest in the whole Light Tank Rework, we knew this was coming and I was pleased to see it come in all its glory. Because it is now on par with the other Tier V Lights while still offering the uniqueness of having a mobile 240 alpha tank, or a somewhat reliable 110 alpha like all the rest. A certain known individual who was very fond of the old ELC didn't agree, where do we begin... - Can't pen KV-220-2's. - Gets RB-RT'd by everything. - Gets rammed by everything. - Can no longer flank/relocate. Now I must apologise, I didn't have time to play 1,000 games in a single evening, but I did 3 Mark it very quickly. Let's see how it went. So, that's a lot of decent games I think, hey at least I didn't just do one game and say 'Oh I did well'. Survived all but one, so I guess I wasn't getting RB-RT'd and rammed, in fact I only got properly rammed ONCE, and any other instances were minor collisions while circling. Let's see, can't relocate at all? Seems fine to me... 1v4 by the way, too bad I killed the Flak Bus too quick or else I may have got a Kolobanov's in my clearly unplayable tank. Last on the list is that it can't pen Bogatyr/KV-220-2's. The wonders you can do when you know weakspots, I should have kept track of how many 220-2's I slaughtered, although my annoying team mates kept denying me the full 690 damage. But I understand, back when the tank had 170/248 you didn't need to learn weakspots. All in all, this 'clearly unplayable' tank seems clearly playable to me. Now, is the tank a shadow of its former self, yes but only because of how good it used to be and how balanced it now is. The 75mm while lacking in penetration and I think it's a horrendous gun, I'm unsure about even thinking it needs a buff because well, that's similar penetration to most other guns on V Lights. The Chaffee gets 96, the M7 gets either 92 or 105. The Leopard gets 95 or 100 and the T-50 gets 90. The only thing I would say it could maybe do with is slightly better handling. The tank itself seems entirely fine and the only thing I would suggest is a package allowing you to mount the 75mm and have the fully upgraded tracks. It only really bled speed uphill, driving through any deep water for the tank and when in a CoD, and that is the only time where the acceleration seemed bad, it seems plenty mobile otherwise. The low profile coupled with camo and speed meant that I could frequently just avoid getting hit, or even at times lit up. One of the good games above I had a T37 get as close as 79m from my tank and he still didn't light me up, I only risked being lit up if he got so close to proxy-spot. But that same low profile also caused frequent issues, more often than not I'd snap to a tank, go into sniper view and then find that insignificant wall in front of me now covers the whole screen, or that I'd have to expose it a bit more to actually get shots at the enemy from the tiniest of hills that I would barely even notice in other tanks. One of the biggest 'issues' I found with it was the upwards gun arc is horrendous, and I'd have to force the tank at odd angles now and again because I couldn't aim the gun up at the enemy because of being on a slight downward angle. As a whole, the tank is much more focused on stealth and spotting than other V Lights which does put it at the issue of relying on team mates more frequently which is never great, but otherwise is good. I tried out the 90mm for a bit and while I could still casually snipe away at a 220-2 unable to see me and get lucky enough to 3-Shot him, I found the 75mm more reliable as a whole and the full turret was more preferable to me than the limited one version. I still didn't find it very enjoyable mind, but that could be because I for the most part dislike the Light play style and don't enjoy most of them, those that I did enjoy have long since been nerfed with the LT Rework.
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DerailedWingnut
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Dirty Chinese Cartoons Loving Fuck
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 23, 2018 22:59:32 GMT
Informative as always. I enjoy reading your in-depth looks at tanks and what is good/bad about them.
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CatSnipah
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Catnip Commander
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Post by CatSnipah on May 24, 2018 1:17:35 GMT
Once again, Derpy for the win.
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TocFanKe4
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Post by TocFanKe4 on May 24, 2018 22:04:48 GMT
I still like the old one. They should have just nerfed the gun into the ground but left everything else the same. It was one of the most enjoyable tanks I've ever driven. Its diving isn't as fun as it once was. I couldn't care less if it did tons of damage. I just liked driving it. Remove the gun and leave the rest as is, and I'd have still used it.
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Corporal Derpy
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Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 24, 2018 22:42:02 GMT
I still like the old one. They should have just nerfed the gun into the ground but left everything else the same. It was one of the most enjoyable tanks I've ever driven. Its diving isn't as fun as it once was. I couldn't care less if it did tons of damage. I just liked driving it. Remove the gun and leave the rest as is, and I'd have still used it. There are still a fair number of tanks out there that go relatively quick, but admittedly they're mostly larger targets or at the lower tiers where accuracy is even worse. Like with all the other changes, I'm rather fine with the lower speed. As long as my tank is speedy enough to get to strong positions for it, or has some other strength to offset low speed then I'm fine with whatever, having it be super sonic has never gave me an interest in tanks. And it's previous speed was one of the reasons you saw ELC Drivers so frequently suicide rush, and so often actually get away with it, nothing could keep up but other Lights and if they were chasing down them, they weren't doing anything useful elsewhere so two tanks would be fucking around unintentionally spotting anyone who tried to put an end to their torment. I'm sure there are instances where the new speed is bad compared to others, but this mostly just meant planning in advance, being able to realise I needed to relocate earlier than if I was in the old one where I could get a tank bearing down on me and still have time for dinner before running away. The only real reason I could see for making the engine a bit better, if not back to 250hp is to make water affect the tank less, as in deep water the tank grinds to a sluggish 20km/h and given the size of it that's most patches of water. In fact I tried aggressive spotting on Karelia once and the only path to and from where I wanted to be had water that could drown it because of how small the hull is. Mentioning how small the hull is, I'd love to fucking know how it fits 36 90mm shells in there, almost as much as the T-34-88 fits in when being like four times the size of an ELC.
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chimonakimi
Corporal
Please ignore my Xbox stats
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Post by chimonakimi on May 25, 2018 10:22:57 GMT
You know why the ELC was carrying similar pen to a tank destroyer? Because it was originally designed as a tank destroyer, as was the gun.
The tank should also do 80km/h, but nope, it now has to sit at the back and jerk itself off with all the other nerfed lights
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Corporal Derpy
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Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 25, 2018 13:50:52 GMT
You know why the ELC was carrying similar pen to a tank destroyer? Because it was originally designed as a tank destroyer, as was the gun. The tank should also do 80km/h, but nope, it now has to sit at the back and jerk itself off with all the other nerfed lights This does not justify it having higher penetration than everything but THREE Tier V TD's. You can have it have good pen and good alpha, to act similar to a TD role with 120/150 pen and retaining the 240 alpha, it does that just fine. As for 'the tank should do 80km/h'. Is there a reason for this, what's the justification that this tank should do 80km/h and continue carrying a 248 pen gun. With you mentioning the other nerfed Lights for me. Is it to have historical accuracy deemed more important than balance in an arcade, competitive video game, or just because you want it to remain OP? Naturally, the penetration wasn't the only issue. It got penetration on par with 2 of the best pen TD's at the tier only being surpassed by the Flak Bus using an L/94, which is one of the easiest targets to hit and the L/94 gimps its traverse horrendously. While also being one of the most mobile tanks in the game, one of the stealthiest and one of the smallest. The single weakness with all those advantages was that it didn't have a full traverse turret, but how often did this cause issues when you could relocate so easily, remain unspotted for so long and given the whole Light class, turn the hull and everything without losing any camouflage. In the battles I played with it, bearing in mind that I ran the 75mm not the 90mm I did not find myself forced into 'sitting at the back jerking myself off', I only found myself having to play more passive was when I was in games with multiple Lights per team, higher tier Lights. And meeting a T71 CMCD wasn't going to work out for me.
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defiantspurr
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Post by defiantspurr on May 25, 2018 16:05:46 GMT
The ammo is historic, it actually had that many rounds.
I'd like to see the elc120 in the game... 4 120mm recoilless rifles. 😁 Or the baby with the twin 30mm autocannons
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defiantspurr
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Post by defiantspurr on May 25, 2018 16:21:23 GMT
The twin auto cannon is sexy. 100mm pen.
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Corporal Derpy
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Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 25, 2018 16:27:19 GMT
The ammo is historic, it actually had that many rounds. Would be dandy then if tanks like the T-34/100 that are like three times the size of it weren't gimped by low ammo count then...
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defiantspurr
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Post by defiantspurr on May 25, 2018 16:30:16 GMT
The ammo is historic, it actually had that many rounds. Would be dandy then if tanks like the T-34/100 that are like three times the size of it weren't gimped by low ammo count then... Yeah, its the dumbest part of "balancing" that they do. Some of the amx 12+ light tanks are getting more ammo than they had in real life... Because of "balance".
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DerailedWingnut
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Dirty Chinese Cartoons Loving Fuck
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 25, 2018 16:31:27 GMT
The ammo is historic, it actually had that many rounds. Would be dandy then if tanks like the T-34/100 that are like three times the size of it weren't gimped by low ammo count then... It's all in the name of "balance" Derpy. I mean, how overpowered would the T-34/88 be if it had 60 rounds instead? My lord that would be a monstrosity!
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defiantspurr
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Post by defiantspurr on May 25, 2018 16:31:38 GMT
Would be dandy then if tanks like the T-34/100 that are like three times the size of it weren't gimped by low ammo count then... Yeah, its the dumbest part of "balancing" that they do. Some of the amx 12+ light tanks are getting more ammo than they had in real life... Because of "balance". I think it was the amx 90 that only had two magazines of ammo. But then that's something they don't have in the game, the double "clip".
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Corporal Derpy
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Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 25, 2018 16:35:39 GMT
Would be dandy then if tanks like the T-34/100 that are like three times the size of it weren't gimped by low ammo count then... Yeah, its the dumbest part of "balancing" that they do. Some of the amx 12+ light tanks are getting more ammo than they had in real life... Because of "balance". I don't mind them buffing tanks to give them more ammo, since historical accuracy is not what I care for, and having low ammo is one of the worst things in the game. But 'balancing' tanks by purposely giving them low ammo, yeah that's even worse. Since them having low ammo in reality not carrying over makes sense given tanks don't actually have HP Bars or 'alpha', but having a tank with no known ammo count and then giving it a ridiculously low amount just limits the tanks potential in game for no logical reason. You end up with tanks that are screwed if they get just one shot that goes poorly, maybe it misses or bounces, or better yet it comes down to the wire and you low roll thus having to throw the game where another tank almost exactly alike will still have a good amount of shells remaining.
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Corporal Derpy
Lieutenant
Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 25, 2018 16:38:07 GMT
Would be dandy then if tanks like the T-34/100 that are like three times the size of it weren't gimped by low ammo count then... It's all in the name of "balance" Derpy. I mean, how overpowered would the T-34/88 be if it had 60 rounds instead? My lord that would be a monstrosity! T-34-88 I can understand, 220 alpha for that tier coupled with the DPM and handling would be insane, even if the tank has suffered with the mediocre pen because having 3 L/56's with different pen is such good design. But T-34/100, yeah no, it might actually end up being competitive, which for any Tier VII Medium would be an incredible feat.
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DerailedWingnut
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Dirty Chinese Cartoons Loving Fuck
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 25, 2018 17:03:29 GMT
It's all in the name of "balance" Derpy. I mean, how overpowered would the T-34/88 be if it had 60 rounds instead? My lord that would be a monstrosity! T-34-88 I can understand, 220 alpha for that tier coupled with the DPM and handling would be insane, even if the tank has suffered with the mediocre pen because having 3 L/56's with different pen is such good design. But T-34/100, yeah no, it might actually end up being competitive, which for any Tier VII Medium would be an incredible feat. Sadly the T-34/100 has been the most enjoyable Czech tank I've used so far. It's not very competitive, but I think I'd rather have it than the T20 honestly. The T-34/88 I can understand needing less rounds. How many rounds does it currently carry?
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Corporal Derpy
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Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 25, 2018 19:11:21 GMT
T-34-88 I can understand, 220 alpha for that tier coupled with the DPM and handling would be insane, even if the tank has suffered with the mediocre pen because having 3 L/56's with different pen is such good design. But T-34/100, yeah no, it might actually end up being competitive, which for any Tier VII Medium would be an incredible feat. Sadly the T-34/100 has been the most enjoyable Czech tank I've used so far. It's not very competitive, but I think I'd rather have it than the T20 honestly. The T-34/88 I can understand needing less rounds. How many rounds does it currently carry? The T-34-1 and T-34/100 are the only VII Mediums I really enjoy. But both aren't very competitive. The 88 carries 38 rounds, y'know 2 extra rounds than the tank the size of a fucking sports car.
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DerailedWingnut
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Dirty Chinese Cartoons Loving Fuck
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Post by DerailedWingnut on May 25, 2018 19:54:52 GMT
Sadly the T-34/100 has been the most enjoyable Czech tank I've used so far. It's not very competitive, but I think I'd rather have it than the T20 honestly. The T-34/88 I can understand needing less rounds. How many rounds does it currently carry? The T-34-1 and T-34/100 are the only VII Mediums I really enjoy. But both aren't very competitive. The 88 carries 38 rounds, y'know 2 extra rounds than the tank the size of a fucking sports car. How many rounds of 75mm does the ELC carry?
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Corporal Derpy
Lieutenant
Corporal Corporal Corporal
'If I'm on fire I don't need statistics to recognize the problem that I'm on fire.' - Aschenblume.
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Post by Corporal Derpy on May 25, 2018 21:01:57 GMT
The T-34-1 and T-34/100 are the only VII Mediums I really enjoy. But both aren't very competitive. The 88 carries 38 rounds, y'know 2 extra rounds than the tank the size of a fucking sports car. How many rounds of 75mm does the ELC carry? 48.
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