Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 10, 2017 23:11:34 GMT
The Results:
By seats (change since 2015): Conservative and Unionist Party: 318 seats (-13) Labour Party: 262 (+30) Scottish National Party (SNP): 35 seats (-21) Liberal Democrats: 12 seats (+4) Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 10 seats (+2) Sinn Féin: 7 seats (+3) Plaid Cymru: 4 seats (+1) Green Party: 1 seat (0) Independent candidates: 1 seat United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP): 0 seats (-1) Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP): 0 seats (-3) Ulster Unionist Party (UUP): 0 seats (-2)
(Parties that won no seats in 2015 and won no seats in 2017 omitted).
By popular vote: Conservative and Unionist Party: 13,667,213 Labour Party: 12,874,985 Liberal Democrats: 2,371,772 Scottish National Party (SNP): 977,569 United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP): 593,852 Green Party: 525,371 Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 292,316 Sinn Féin: 238,915 Plaid Cymru: 164,466 Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP): 95,419 Ulster Unionist Party (UUP): 83,280 Alliance Party: 64,553 The Yorkshire Party: 20,958 National Health Action: 16,119 Christian People's Alliance: 5,869 British National Party (BNP): 4,642 Monster Raving Loony Party: 3,890 Women's Equality Party: 3,580 Pirate Party: 2,321 English Democrats: 1,913 Workers Revolutionary Party: 771 Social Democratic Party: 469 Others (including independent candidates): 186,675
Turnout: 68.7% Electorate: 46,843,896
With 326 seats needed for a Commons majority, no party achieved this number. On the 9th of June Her Majesty the Queen invited Theresa May's Conservatives to form a minority government, which will be backed by the DUP, giving a working majority of just 2 seats.
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RagingxMarmoset
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Post by RagingxMarmoset on Jun 11, 2017 1:00:36 GMT
I read today that May's advisors stepped down. Is there a possibility she'll follow suit after this mess? The situation seems tumultuous at best.
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Snorelacks
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Post by Snorelacks on Jun 11, 2017 1:13:54 GMT
I would've expected Boris to make a push to be PM.
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 11, 2017 11:14:30 GMT
I read today that May's advisors stepped down. Is there a possibility she'll follow suit after this mess? The situation seems tumultuous at best. I would've expected Boris to make a push to be PM. There are rumours going around of a leadership challenge tomorrow. That was something that was threatened if May didn't sack those two advisers everyone in the cabinet hated, but now they're gone maybe it won't happen. However, I think they only need the support of about 48 Tory MPs to trigger a leadership challenge, and I should think there are plenty of people who hate her after the election; those with reduced majorities and such. Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, had her majority reduced to about 320 votes, so I wouldn't think her and May are going to see eye to eye on this election. Who knows what's going on in the cabinet? The thing with the Tories is that everything happens behind closed doors, unlike Labour where everything is very public and everyone can see what's happening with the leadership. It's actually possible (or probable, depending on who you ask) that another election will be triggered by the end of the year, and if May is still in charge then, she will almost definitely not survive it. Either way, she isn't going to be around for much longer. I actually think she's going to go down as one of the worst Prime Ministers in history. She's done nothing of note so far except hold one General Election, and then lose it (well, she still managed to form a government, but it's a minority one and she lost a load of seats, while Labour won loads of seats, so it can be considered a defeat).
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Post by HanaHardTime on Jun 12, 2017 19:47:20 GMT
I read today that May's advisors stepped down. Is there a possibility she'll follow suit after this mess? The situation seems tumultuous at best. I would've expected Boris to make a push to be PM. There are rumours going around of a leadership challenge tomorrow. That was something that was threatened if May didn't sack those two advisers everyone in the cabinet hated, but now they're gone maybe it won't happen. However, I think they only need the support of about 48 Tory MPs to trigger a leadership challenge, and I should think there are plenty of people who hate her after the election; those with reduced majorities and such. Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, had her majority reduced to about 320 votes, so I wouldn't think her and May are going to see eye to eye on this election. Who knows what's going on in the cabinet? The thing with the Tories is that everything happens behind closed doors, unlike Labour where everything is very public and everyone can see what's happening with the leadership. It's actually possible (or probable, depending on who you ask) that another election will be triggered by the end of the year, and if May is still in charge then, she will almost definitely not survive it. Either way, she isn't going to be around for much longer. I actually think she's going to go down as one of the worst Prime Ministers in history. She's done nothing of note so far except hold one General Election, and then lose it (well, she still managed to form a government, but it's a minority one and she lost a load of seats, while Labour won loads of seats, so it can be considered a defeat). Isn't DUP way out there? What kind of concession can May offer to them without her party imploding? Do they even speak the same language?
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 12, 2017 20:49:20 GMT
There are rumours going around of a leadership challenge tomorrow. That was something that was threatened if May didn't sack those two advisers everyone in the cabinet hated, but now they're gone maybe it won't happen. However, I think they only need the support of about 48 Tory MPs to trigger a leadership challenge, and I should think there are plenty of people who hate her after the election; those with reduced majorities and such. Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, had her majority reduced to about 320 votes, so I wouldn't think her and May are going to see eye to eye on this election. Who knows what's going on in the cabinet? The thing with the Tories is that everything happens behind closed doors, unlike Labour where everything is very public and everyone can see what's happening with the leadership. It's actually possible (or probable, depending on who you ask) that another election will be triggered by the end of the year, and if May is still in charge then, she will almost definitely not survive it. Either way, she isn't going to be around for much longer. I actually think she's going to go down as one of the worst Prime Ministers in history. She's done nothing of note so far except hold one General Election, and then lose it (well, she still managed to form a government, but it's a minority one and she lost a load of seats, while Labour won loads of seats, so it can be considered a defeat). Isn't DUP way out there? What kind of concession can May offer to them without her party imploding? Do they even speak the same language? Yeah, the DUP are pretty...different. Very protestant, very unionist, anti-abortion, anti-gay, climate change-denying, creationist right-wingers, with links to terrorism during The Troubles (think a unionist Sinn Féin). Established by a hardline protestant unionist priest in 1971. I have no idea what concession the Tories can give them, but I gather they want the Northern Ireland Assembly sorted out, and a generally greater voice for Northern Ireland in general. It's not like they're demanding the sort of thing that's in line with their crazy ideology; Michael Fallon has made a statement saying that they don't need to agree on everything and the DUP will just support them on the big umbrella issues. Overall it's rather worrying though, because for a while the British government has been seen as a (comparably) neutral party in the whole Northern Ireland thing, since they negotiated Good Friday along with the Republic, but now they're up close with the unionists things might get a bit heated...
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Niles Y93
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Post by Niles Y93 on Jun 12, 2017 21:19:31 GMT
Links to who? UVF? Red Hand Commando?
(Yes, I do study up on these things.)
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 12, 2017 21:39:04 GMT
Links to who? UVF? Red Hand Commando? (Yes, I do study up on these things.) Well the guy who founded the DUP, Ian Paisley, also founded three paramilitary groups, the Ulster Protestant Volunteers, the Third Force, and Ulster Resistance. The UPV in particular is known to have bombed water and electricity stations and then blamed it on the IRA, and at one point Paisley's Third Force apparently had as many as 20,000 members. In 1981 the US cancelled Paisley's visa to travel there, and he also opposed the Good Friday Agreement. He was a pretty, well, controversial, character. I don't know if the DUP itself actually supported the paramilitaries and terrorists, but given that their leader established three of them at the same time as he was the leader, I'd say that was grounds to call it "support".
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HanaHardTime
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Post by HanaHardTime on Jun 14, 2017 2:06:35 GMT
Links to who? UVF? Red Hand Commando? (Yes, I do study up on these things.) Well the guy who founded the DUP, Ian Paisley, also founded three paramilitary groups, the Ulster Protestant Volunteers, the Third Force, and Ulster Resistance. The UPV in particular is known to have bombed water and electricity stations and then blamed it on the IRA, and at one point Paisley's Third Force apparently had as many as 20,000 members. In 1981 the US cancelled Paisley's visa to travel there, and he also opposed the Good Friday Agreement. He was a pretty, well, controversial, character. I don't know if the DUP itself actually supported the paramilitaries and terrorists, but given that their leader established three of them at the same time as he was the leader, I'd say that was grounds to call it "support". Wow! So, the Torries really are desparate. I can now see why so many pundits don't give this minority government little chance of surviving the summer. Thanks for your thoughts. Looks like we are really in crisis point on both sides of the pond.
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 15, 2017 22:30:22 GMT
Well the guy who founded the DUP, Ian Paisley, also founded three paramilitary groups, the Ulster Protestant Volunteers, the Third Force, and Ulster Resistance. The UPV in particular is known to have bombed water and electricity stations and then blamed it on the IRA, and at one point Paisley's Third Force apparently had as many as 20,000 members. In 1981 the US cancelled Paisley's visa to travel there, and he also opposed the Good Friday Agreement. He was a pretty, well, controversial, character. I don't know if the DUP itself actually supported the paramilitaries and terrorists, but given that their leader established three of them at the same time as he was the leader, I'd say that was grounds to call it "support". Wow! So, the Torries really are desparate. I can now see why so many pundits don't give this minority government little chance of surviving the summer. Thanks for your thoughts. Looks like we are really in crisis point on both sides of the pond. To be honest I'd say another reason that it won't survive long is the fact that the DUP are so right-wing, and most will find their beliefs, at the least, distasteful. Britain, and most of Europe for that fact, tends to be pretty averse to pretty far-right politics. For example, the DUP oppose abortions and gay marriage and think evolution is a lie. While in the US that sort of thing is still somewhat an open debate with strong voices on both sides, in the UK it's been mostly sorted out. Abortions are legal, gay marriage is legal, evolution is the official school policy, and most people will probably think that anyone saying otherwise is a bit odd. Obviously in Northern Ireland that kind of debate on issues most think are a forgone conclusion is normal, because, well, it's Northern Ireland, but in the rest of the UK it isn't going to meet with much approval, and they'll probably be looked on as a bunch of nutters.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Jun 15, 2017 22:55:03 GMT
Wow! So, the Torries really are desparate. I can now see why so many pundits don't give this minority government little chance of surviving the summer. Thanks for your thoughts. Looks like we are really in crisis point on both sides of the pond. To be honest I'd say another reason that it won't survive long is the fact that the DUP are so right-wing, and most will find their beliefs, at the least, distasteful. Britain, and most of Europe for that fact, tends to be pretty averse to pretty far-right politics. For example, the DUP oppose abortions and gay marriage and think evolution is a lie. While in the US that sort of thing is still somewhat an open debate with strong voices on both sides, in the UK it's been mostly sorted out. Abortions are legal, gay marriage is legal, evolution is the official school policy, and most people will probably think that anyone saying otherwise is a bit odd. Obviously in Northern Ireland that kind of debate on issues most think are a forgone conclusion is normal, because, well, it's Northern Ireland, but in the rest of the UK it isn't going to meet with much approval, and they'll probably be looked on as a bunch of nutters. Yes the leftist way is the only way. Love how a theory is being taught as facts lol.
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 15, 2017 23:02:36 GMT
To be honest I'd say another reason that it won't survive long is the fact that the DUP are so right-wing, and most will find their beliefs, at the least, distasteful. Britain, and most of Europe for that fact, tends to be pretty averse to pretty far-right politics. For example, the DUP oppose abortions and gay marriage and think evolution is a lie. While in the US that sort of thing is still somewhat an open debate with strong voices on both sides, in the UK it's been mostly sorted out. Abortions are legal, gay marriage is legal, evolution is the official school policy, and most people will probably think that anyone saying otherwise is a bit odd. Obviously in Northern Ireland that kind of debate on issues most think are a forgone conclusion is normal, because, well, it's Northern Ireland, but in the rest of the UK it isn't going to meet with much approval, and they'll probably be looked on as a bunch of nutters. Yes the leftist way is the only way. Love how a theory is being taught as facts lol. I'm only pointing out why the DUP-Tory deal is going to be unpopular, calm down.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Jun 15, 2017 23:12:01 GMT
Yes the leftist way is the only way. Love how a theory is being taught as facts lol. I'm only pointing out why the DUP-Tory deal is going to be unpopular, calm down. Lol, bad day I take it?
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jun 15, 2017 23:20:38 GMT
I'm only pointing out why the DUP-Tory deal is going to be unpopular, calm down. Lol, bad day I take it? Not entirely sure what led you to that conclusion, but no. You seem to have mistaken me pointing out the fact that the far-right are not very popular here (the UK has been far-right before, it didn't go very well) for me saying the left is "the only way".
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Jun 15, 2017 23:49:29 GMT
Not entirely sure what led you to that conclusion, but no. You seem to have mistaken me pointing out the fact that the far-right are not very popular here (the UK has been far-right before, it didn't go very well) for me saying the left is "the only way". Politics like everything else ebbs and flows. Right , then left, then centrist, then back left, then right etc. In the end no single political philosophy seems to work out for a citizenry for long, just benefits those in power.
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HanaHardTime
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Post by HanaHardTime on Jun 16, 2017 23:05:43 GMT
Not entirely sure what led you to that conclusion, but no. You seem to have mistaken me pointing out the fact that the far-right are not very popular here (the UK has been far-right before, it didn't go very well) for me saying the left is "the only way". Politics like everything else ebbs and flows. Right , then left, then centrist, then back left, then right etc. In the end no single political philosophy seems to work out for a citizenry for long, just benefits those in power. Well, I understood just fine. Thanks for your thoughts. I do agree that left/right labels can inhibit dialog on real issues especially since most voters are near-centrist in their views; but, I disagree with belittling discussions about political/social/economic theories. These ideas provide us a common basis against which to evaluate our observations. Invariably, when we are not acknowledging the principles of our position on specific issues, the arguments turn subjective, slogan driven, and loud -- "signifying nothing."
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