Pit Friend
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Date registered: Feb 13, 2016 23:13:42 GMT
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Post by Pit Friend on Jan 17, 2017 22:20:05 GMT
One thing that I've always wondered about is how Germany deployed their JagdTiger heavy tank destroyers during WWII. These TDs were designed to fight Heavy Soviet armor. From anything I can find though every one that was actually deployed was sent to the western front. This always felt to me like a waste because their big guns were definitely not needed to deal with American or British armor. The fortified area defensive posture the Germans used on the eastern front seems custom made for these things, besides them being intended to counter Soviet armor in the first place.
Has as anyone read or seen anything to explain this decision? Were they sent west to aid the Ardennes offensive then just wound up staying there because it was too hard to move them?
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ZER01025
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Post by ZER01025 on Jan 18, 2017 1:19:54 GMT
Just guessing here but factories maybe? Hitler maybe thought he could push the Americans and British back and build more super tanks and win the war?
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jan 18, 2017 22:33:58 GMT
I imagine because they were going to be sent to the Eastern Front but with the whole situation going to shit by that point they just sort of ended up in the West, either because they couldn't be transported to the east, or whoever was in command just decided to take them to the west when no one told him what to do when he couldn't get east.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 19:04:05 GMT
From what I've read/heard/seen, they wouldn't have made much of a difference. I think the gun had to be in its cradle if the vehicle had to move otherwise the sight/gun calibration would go to shit. If the crew spotted a target, some poor bastard had to get out of the vehicle and release the gun from its cradle.
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Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jan 20, 2017 0:08:29 GMT
I think the crews the Jagdtigers had were awful anyway. Whoever it was commanding them (Guderian? I can't remember) said that they would abandon their tanks as soon as they received a hit, even though it had ricocheted and caused no actual damage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 20:41:47 GMT
I think the crews the Jagdtigers had were awful anyway. Whoever it was commanding them (Guderian? I can't remember) said that they would abandon their tanks as soon as they received a hit, even though it had ricocheted and caused no actual damage. The majority were probably like that but a few were competent. Otto Carius used a Jagdtiger and he did alright as a Tank Commander. |
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I AM The Scouting Authority.
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jan 20, 2017 23:10:38 GMT
I think the crews the Jagdtigers had were awful anyway. Whoever it was commanding them (Guderian? I can't remember) said that they would abandon their tanks as soon as they received a hit, even though it had ricocheted and caused no actual damage. The majority were probably like that but a few were competent. Otto Carius used a Jagdtiger and he did alright as a Tank Commander. But Carius had been able to pick his crew from a replacement battalion. The rest of the tanks in his unit were poorly crewed. Even his XO was awful after letting a convoy pass beneath his guns then running away until both his and a second JagdTiger were out of commission. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 8:13:06 GMT
The majority were probably like that but a few were competent. Otto Carius used a Jagdtiger and he did alright as a Tank Commander. But Carius had been able to pick his crew from a replacement battalion. The rest of the tanks in his unit were poorly crewed. Even his XO was awful after letting a convoy pass beneath his guns then running away until both his and a second JagdTiger were out of commission. You've got to ask yourself, what would have you done in January-April 1945, after nearly 6 years of war, if you were German? Millions dead, cities flattened, war long lost and the Russians hell bent on revenge. I think I'd throw the towel in, go home (if it's still standing) and have a cup of tea and wait for it to blow over.  |
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jan 21, 2017 14:38:58 GMT
But Carius had been able to pick his crew from a replacement battalion. The rest of the tanks in his unit were poorly crewed. Even his XO was awful after letting a convoy pass beneath his guns then running away until both his and a second JagdTiger were out of commission. You've got to ask yourself, what would have you done in January-April 1945, after nearly 6 years of war, if you were German? Millions dead, cities flattened, war long lost and the Russians hell bent on revenge. I think I'd throw the towel in, go home (if it's still standing) and have a cup of tea and wait for it to blow over. Oh yeah no doubt. To be fair id just head west. Its better than the east wind that was coming |
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jan 21, 2017 15:29:57 GMT
But Carius had been able to pick his crew from a replacement battalion. The rest of the tanks in his unit were poorly crewed. Even his XO was awful after letting a convoy pass beneath his guns then running away until both his and a second JagdTiger were out of commission. You've got to ask yourself, what would have you done in January-April 1945, after nearly 6 years of war, if you were German? Millions dead, cities flattened, war long lost and the Russians hell bent on revenge. I think I'd throw the towel in, go home (if it's still standing) and have a cup of tea and wait for it to blow over. If you can avoid the roving bands of vigilante fifty-something ex-SA stormtroopers cutting about killing any male they can find for defeatism. |
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jan 21, 2017 21:25:34 GMT
You've got to ask yourself, what would have you done in January-April 1945, after nearly 6 years of war, if you were German? Millions dead, cities flattened, war long lost and the Russians hell bent on revenge. I think I'd throw the towel in, go home (if it's still standing) and have a cup of tea and wait for it to blow over. If you can avoid the roving bands of vigilante fifty-something ex-SA stormtroopers cutting about killing any male they can find for defeatism. I'll have to dig my book out but there are stories of 50 something brown shirts and Rittmeisters trying to stop heer troops passing through their towns going towards germany and the heer unit cutting them down or stringing them up. |
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Atom Priest
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Post by Atom Priest on Jan 28, 2017 19:42:00 GMT
because the plan was to crush the western allies so badly that they call for a ceasefire and possibly peace talks, then they can send everything to the east to stall the soviets. That and I think they were built in the west, and that they wouldn't have the time or fuel to send them to the east since allied bombing destroyed most of the rail ways and large roads.
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Post by Vince Cable's Exotic Spresm on Jan 28, 2017 21:02:44 GMT
because the plan was to crush the western allies so badly that they call for a ceasefire and possibly peace talks, then they can send everything to the east to stall the soviets. That's basically what the last year of the war was. If you've ever watched Downfall it's pretty accurate. Hitler just gesticulating vaguely at a map and shouting about "a decisive blow" to knock the western Allies/the Soviets out of the war, usually using units that have been shattered or totally wiped out, and then his generals trying to just hold everything together while making it look like the "decisive blow" was being played out. |
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Atom Priest
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Post by Atom Priest on Jan 28, 2017 21:07:19 GMT
because the plan was to crush the western allies so badly that they call for a ceasefire and possibly peace talks, then they can send everything to the east to stall the soviets. That's basically what the last year of the war was. If you've ever watched Downfall it's pretty accurate. Hitler just gesticulating vaguely at a map and shouting about "a decisive blow" to knock the western Allies/the Soviets out of the war, usually using units that have been shattered or totally wiped out, and then his generals trying to just hold everything together while making it look like the "decisive blow" was being played out. He was about as clueless as an art student. Oh wait....... |
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Post by I AM The Scouting Authority. on Jan 28, 2017 23:34:52 GMT
That's basically what the last year of the war was. If you've ever watched Downfall it's pretty accurate. Hitler just gesticulating vaguely at a map and shouting about "a decisive blow" to knock the western Allies/the Soviets out of the war, usually using units that have been shattered or totally wiped out, and then his generals trying to just hold everything together while making it look like the "decisive blow" was being played out. He was about as clueless as an art student. Oh wait....... Look at the fall out after the US Forces captured the Bridge at Remagen. An Artillery Officer returning to his unit was one of three or four Officers not related to the Sector found guilty of dereliction of duty whilst the real culprits were ignored. |
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