Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Sept 25, 2020 19:56:03 GMT
With CV’s being in development for legends, and assuming legends will use the most current PC build possible to base them on. I was wondering if they are still considered OP or more of a nuisance?
Of course legends discussion is full of both sides from saying it’s death from a thousand paper cuts to everything being one shot dev striked.
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Ron James Dio
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Post by Ron James Dio on Sept 25, 2020 23:32:05 GMT
Its up for serious debate, at the moment. The official forum is full of threads of people complaining either that CV's are brokens stupid OP, and others that are complaining that CV's can't do a thing.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, I find, although my experience with post rework CV's is admittedly limited. They can be extremely powerful in the right situations when piloted by an experienced player, but it requires a certain amount of skill to unlock the true potential of.
CV's alpha strike was universally nerfed in the rework. They can no longer multi-cross drop dev strike ships so aside from a DD, and most of the time even then, you won't be wiped out by a CV in one strike unless you are very low on health or exceptionally unlucky and get detonated (which is exceedingly rare from what I've seen, borderline impossible)
What makes a CV so powerful is its ability to project vision to any location on the map extremely quickly using planes. Ninja DD's can be essentially perma-spotted, negating any advantage they have, a select few other ships like Roma and Atago as well. Any ship relying on stealth can be easily thwarted, if the CV pilot has a mind to, with the only limiting factor being smoke on ships that have it.
AA has been significantly nerfed during the course of the post rework era, and it's generally regarded as a shadow of its former self with a few exceptions. At this point it's practically impossible to shoot down enough planes to prevent a CV's first attack, barring the captain flying directly into a flak cloud on his approach.Flak can be easily avoided by simple means, negating the lions share of the damage that AA does now.
For a DD, who generally has poor AA (Pan-Euro DD's being the exception) preventing a CV's attentions is all but impossible. Shooting your AA guns reveals your ship, so many players turn AA off to avoid detection in a DD, but even with it on the DPS is so low in most cases that knocking down more than a handful of planes in a match is rare. You will not be able to shoot down a full squadron before you are are sunk. Rocket planes, which were added in the rework, are extremely difficult to dodge effectively in a DD although the damage can be significantly diminished with hard maneuvering.
CV's aren't as apocalyptic as they once were, wiping out full health top tier BB's in a single drop, but they are definitely still powerful. A major factor in how well a CV will do in game is the tier of the CV vs its targets. A tier 6 CV in a tier 8 game is going to have a very difficult time doing meaningful damage, likewise if your team groups up to consolidate their AA power.
I apologise for the long winded response, but there is no simple answer for this question. CV's are a very polarising class in Warships.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Sept 26, 2020 0:33:18 GMT
Its up for serious debate, at the moment. The official forum is full of threads of people complaining either that CV's are brokens stupid OP, and others that are complaining that CV's can't do a thing. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I find, although my experience with post rework CV's is admittedly limited. They can be extremely powerful in the right situations when piloted by an experienced player, but it requires a certain amount of skill to unlock the true potential of. CV's alpha strike was universally nerfed in the rework. They can no longer multi-cross drop dev strike ships so aside from a DD, and most of the time even then, you won't be wiped out by a CV in one strike unless you are very low on health or exceptionally unlucky and get detonated (which is exceedingly rare from what I've seen, borderline impossible) What makes a CV so powerful is its ability to project vision to any location on the map extremely quickly using planes. Ninja DD's can be essentially perma-spotted, negating any advantage they have, a select few other ships like Roma and Atago as well. Any ship relying on stealth can be easily thwarted, if the CV pilot has a mind to, with the only limiting factor being smoke on ships that have it. AA has been significantly nerfed during the course of the post rework era, and it's generally regarded as a shadow of its former self with a few exceptions. At this point it's practically impossible to shoot down enough planes to prevent a CV's first attack, barring the captain flying directly into a flak cloud on his approach.Flak can be easily avoided by simple means, negating the lions share of the damage that AA does now. For a DD, who generally has poor AA (Pan-Euro DD's being the exception) preventing a CV's attentions is all but impossible. Shooting your AA guns reveals your ship, so many players turn AA off to avoid detection in a DD, but even with it on the DPS is so low in most cases that knocking down more than a handful of planes in a match is rare. You will not be able to shoot down a full squadron before you are are sunk. Rocket planes, which were added in the rework, are extremely difficult to dodge effectively in a DD although the damage can be significantly diminished with hard maneuvering. CV's aren't as apocalyptic as they once were, wiping out full health top tier BB's in a single drop, but they are definitely still powerful. A major factor in how well a CV will do in game is the tier of the CV vs its targets. A tier 6 CV in a tier 8 game is going to have a very difficult time doing meaningful damage, likewise if your team groups up to consolidate their AA power. I apologise for the long winded response, but there is no simple answer for this question. CV's are a very polarising class in Warships. Thanks for the detailed response, I dabbled with them a bit before I had to stop playing PC. It really feels like both sides are exaggerating a bit in their claims.
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Major Englush
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Post by Major Englush on Sept 26, 2020 15:56:54 GMT
A potato in a CV is a liability to their team, as they will get squads obliterated, not provide vision, or put their hull where it can get spotted and smashed.
A decent player can ruin the game for whomever on the enemy team they want to. The fact you essentially never run out of planes if you play halfway smart, can perma-spot almost any DD, and strike anyone at will over and over and over and over -- all with virtually no counterplay. I've seen CVs just get strike after strike on alleged AA cruisers and DDs because AA is a joke now unless the CV is bottom tier and/or clinically dumb.
In lower tiers they are 100% cancer. So many boats at tiers 3-5 have virtually or literally no AA and shit mobility. Any CV player not a moron can just crap on whomever they want at will. It's annoying as fuck and why lower tiers are a ghost town where even randoms have bots due to low player population.
Is it as bad as arty in tanks, with the ability to insta-nuke an opponent? No.
Is it a shit mechanic that frustrates everyone but CV players? Absofuckinglutely.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Sept 26, 2020 17:23:49 GMT
I’m curious to see how they will balance on console.
We just had 2 skills improved.
Will to rebuild which if your within 2.5km of ally ( iirc ) .5 percent of your health per second automatically up to 20%. That does not use repair party and works with any class. I think it activates at 10 percent health.
Another one, that I can’t remember the name of reduces torpedo damage up to 30% when maxed out when within 2.5 km if an ally.
These are off memory so it may be fudged a little.
It seems they are trying to add skills that will encourage players to stay close and group up for better AA protection
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Sept 26, 2020 23:56:00 GMT
With CV’s being in development for legends, and assuming legends will use the most current PC build possible to base them on. I was wondering if they are still considered OP or more of a nuisance? Of course legends discussion is full of both sides from saying it’s death from a thousand paper cuts to everything being one shot dev striked. CVs are garbage to play against. They're broken powerful when top tier unless you are a complete idiot. Even bottom tier they're strong if you play smart. They're too strong against DDs especially. Rockets are mostly a nuisance against BBs, especially well played BBs. AP bombs can wreck shit, though. Torps are in between. They don't hit hard individually.
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Ron James Dio
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Post by Ron James Dio on Sept 28, 2020 9:36:11 GMT
I personally don't hate CV's. They are just another class to play against. They certainly can be frustrating sometimes, but I find they don't bother me too much. I have a few of them myself, but I rarely play them. I was a supporter of the original RTS incarnation of them.
The amount of games I get with them aren't that frequent and the number of games where the enemy CV focuses me exclusively are even less so. I find I can mitigate a LOT of the damage they do with timely maneuvers, and from my experience CV players seem to not want to waste a lot of time attacking a target that is willing to take serious evasive action to avoid meaningful damage.
They are much, MUCH less dangerous than they were. A unicum RTS CV player was absolutely apocalyptic. Your ship would instantly and unavoidably explode if you had even a momentary lapse in situational awareness. This new system is annoying, and it can stack damage over fhe course of a map. Instant catastrophic detonations by simultaneous multi-cross drops are practically unheard of now. Rockets are only a serious threat in the most lightly armour ships.
RTS CV torpedos used to kill a DD in a single hit and you could fire a spread of 5-7 of them at once. Cross dropping smoke screens made it VERY dangerous for a DD to smoke up to avoid planes.
Grouping up, while not a complete immunity, CAN make it extremely costly for a CV to attack
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CatSnipah
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Post by CatSnipah on Sept 30, 2020 18:03:44 GMT
The CV rework on the live server and using the player base as guinea pigs to figure it all out pushed me out of the game. Right after I'd spent a bunch of money buying ships and premium time. I've played less than 20 games in the past 20 months. Damn shame.
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Major Englush
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Post by Major Englush on Oct 1, 2020 15:13:14 GMT
So they apparently stealth nerfed CVs, with planes getting wrecked after their drops vs being invulnerable, and torp spreads all over the place.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Oct 3, 2020 20:13:51 GMT
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Oct 3, 2020 20:54:45 GMT
So they apparently stealth nerfed CVs, with planes getting wrecked after their drops vs being invulnerable, and torp spreads all over the place. It's a great time to be playing DDs.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Oct 11, 2020 17:20:39 GMT
So they apparently stealth nerfed CVs, with planes getting wrecked after their drops vs being invulnerable, and torp spreads all over the place. It's a great time to be playing DDs. I’m sure it will change again soon enough
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ZER01025
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Post by ZER01025 on Oct 13, 2020 16:02:07 GMT
This "stealth nerf" actually got me playing again. Honestly not seeing the difference. Even if the drops are all over tbe place, getting spotted is a death sentence. I only drop one plane in the intitial attack and then they come back and spot me again while I'm being bombarded by everyone within range.
Getting close to the Hoguamo and the Gearing though!
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YureiKuma
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Post by YureiKuma on Oct 13, 2020 23:28:05 GMT
I can testify to the nerfs. They murdered the bomber accuracy to the point that I was missing CAs completely regardless of how low I dove. Hell, I was missing BBs in their entirety. The torp nerf isn’t as bad and can actually work for you, but DDs are now largely immune to bombs other than Brits. The rocket dispersion also took a hit but not as noticeable.
They have nerfed the AP bombers so much that the Graf Zeppelin is now basically a secondary only CA with a bunch of scout planes.
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Oct 14, 2020 3:26:59 GMT
I can testify to the nerfs. They murdered the bomber accuracy to the point that I was missing CAs completely regardless of how low I dove. Hell, I was missing BBs in their entirety. The torp nerf isn’t as bad and can actually work for you, but DDs are now largely immune to bombs other than Brits. The rocket dispersion also took a hit but not as noticeable. They have nerfed the AP bombers so much that the Graf Zeppelin is now basically a secondary only CA with a bunch of scout planes. Good.
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ZER01025
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Post by ZER01025 on Oct 15, 2020 21:58:33 GMT
They need to remove rockets altoghether. Literaly got focused by a cv last game and before I got close to the cap I had 1/4 health. Then a roon finished me off.
Meanwhile the dumbshit cv captain on my team didn't bother with giving me or anybody else fighters. Hell, since I started playing again I haven't haf a single cv captain give me any fighter coverage.
I'm about done with multiplayer though once I finish my DD grinds. Then I'm buying Premium camos for those ships and sticking to Coop.
Seriously was rocket accuracy on planes this good in ww2? I pretty sure it was aim and pray but what do I know.
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Oct 17, 2020 0:36:13 GMT
They need to remove rockets altoghether. Literaly got focused by a cv last game and before I got close to the cap I had 1/4 health. Then a roon finished me off. Meanwhile the dumbshit cv captain on my team didn't bother with giving me or anybody else fighters. Hell, since I started playing again I haven't haf a single cv captain give me any fighter coverage. I'm about done with multiplayer though once I finish my DD grinds. Then I'm buying Premium camos for those ships and sticking to Coop. Seriously was rocket accuracy on planes this good in ww2? I pretty sure it was aim and pray but what do I know. Rockets are bullshit. CV fighter cover is usually not worth it for a DD early match. Good CV players use their fighters to keep enemy DDs spotting while they line up attack runs. A red CV dropping fighters at the beginning of a match that aren't spotting me/teammates tells me exactly where the red DD is. I generally will not rush to caps early game with a CV present. I will hang back a few hundred meters in front of allies. That way, I'll likely only get dropped on once before the planes get shot down or are forced to bail. I will only enter the cap if I've got enough support close by, or I know the CV sent planes somewhere else.
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ZER01025
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Post by ZER01025 on Oct 17, 2020 0:59:01 GMT
I try my best to spot but everyone else wants me to run to the cap and fight a dd or two by myself with no support and then they talk shit when I die. It's getting old fast, even had a guy msg me in my port the other day bashing me about my 43% win rate saying how I threw the battle. If I would have done what he told me I would have go to the cap and got ambushed by two dds that were working toghther. I feel like mm always puts me on the team that's bound to lose.
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Shhhhh
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Post by Shhhhh on Oct 18, 2020 0:50:52 GMT
I try my best to spot but everyone else wants me to run to the cap and fight a dd or two by myself with no support and then they talk shit when I die. It's getting old fast, even had a guy msg me in my port the other day bashing me about my 43% win rate saying how I threw the battle. If I would have done what he told me I would have go to the cap and got ambushed by two dds that were working toghther. I feel like mm always puts me on the team that's bound to lose. I know that feeling, at least with legends no one can see your WR/Stats. funny thing is, I know the skill system is different for leveling commanders but I mentioned I’m hoarding resources to level up any specific CV commanders that might be added. Get a lot of players calling me nuts but all the items needed to get high level takes months to obtain. It’s amazing how stupid players are.
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Post by Cap'nKaitoGhost on Oct 18, 2020 2:01:07 GMT
I try my best to spot but everyone else wants me to run to the cap and fight a dd or two by myself with no support and then they talk shit when I die. It's getting old fast, even had a guy msg me in my port the other day bashing me about my 43% win rate saying how I threw the battle. If I would have done what he told me I would have go to the cap and got ambushed by two dds that were working toghther. I feel like mm always puts me on the team that's bound to lose. Don't worry about what other people tell you to do. Most often the loudest voices are the most ignorant. Don't worry too much about your win rate in DDs, either. They are by far the most difficult class to play well, and take a lot of experience fucking up before you can get a handle on it.
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