Dado
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Post by Dado on Sept 17, 2016 12:29:31 GMT
Something I was told by a police officer some years back when I 4-wheeled it through a ditch to escape a traffic jam that has stuck with me over the years is "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". The older I get the more instances I see where that adage applies.
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PirateTanker
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Post by PirateTanker on Sept 17, 2016 13:11:55 GMT
Colin is an anti-american idiot that when his contract is done so is he.
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vvmrgoodcatvv
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General Asshole
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Post by vvmrgoodcatvv on Sept 17, 2016 13:26:19 GMT
Straying off topic guys. Debates etc are fine, however i'm going to keep an eye on this one. do you have to
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Almighty Tubsta
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Post by Almighty Tubsta on Sept 17, 2016 14:24:49 GMT
Straying off topic guys. Debates etc are fine, however i'm going to keep an eye on this one. I thought that's what this whole sub-forum was for
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Sept 17, 2016 14:35:20 GMT
Straying off topic guys. Debates etc are fine, however i'm going to keep an eye on this one. do you have to Hopefully i won't need to :-) Straying off topic guys. Debates etc are fine, however i'm going to keep an eye on this one. I thought that's what this whole sub-forum was for Touche. (my phone doesn't have the accented "e" )
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Almighty Tubsta
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Post by Almighty Tubsta on Sept 17, 2016 18:36:28 GMT
I thought that's what this whole sub-forum was for Touche. (my phone doesn't have the accented "e" ) Don't know what phone you have, have you tried holding down the e? é
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Sept 17, 2016 18:42:12 GMT
Touche. (my phone doesn't have the accented "e" ) Don't know what phone you have, have you tried holding down the e? é I had no idea that could be done lol, but yeah that does the trick, thanks.
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Almighty Tubsta
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Post by Almighty Tubsta on Sept 17, 2016 21:47:34 GMT
Don't know what phone you have, have you tried holding down the e? é I had no idea that could be done lol, but yeah that does the trick, thanks. You learn something new everyday. BTW, are we derailing the thread R35T?
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peterock24
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Post by peterock24 on Sept 18, 2016 6:00:39 GMT
There are many things to discuss about this and while I agree with you about almost all of your post (especially how unrelated incidents like Tony Stewart's) I completely disagree with the cartoon that was posted.
The biggest problem that I have with the whole situation is that the common argument amongst those that attack Colin Kaepernick is that because he doesn't stand for the national anthem, it means he hates soldiers both alive and fallen. Just because someone didn't support the war in Iraq, does it mean that they can't support the soldiers who put their lives on the line every single day? Any assumption that this is true is utterly ridiculous.
From what I understand, the protest is being made because of opinions that America is still a country that tolerates racism and is not truly "the land of the free"; in Orwellian terms it is "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others". He refuses to stand because the country he sees is not one of equality as promised. I don't see how this involves soldiers and veterans in any way.
And just a simple side note, the La Russa situation is one that can definitely be argued. I wasn't aware that he had made statements against Kaepernick and his right to protest, but since reading them he is in the wrong. While some would make arguments against him because of a divorce (which many still consider immoral) and a very quick marriage thereafter (implying infidelity), but I would point out that he was in total support of the freedom of speech when it comes to the Tea Party but not when it comes to others.
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Niles Y93
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Post by Niles Y93 on Sept 18, 2016 6:18:13 GMT
There are many things to discuss about this and while I agree with you about almost all of your post (especially how unrelated incidents like Tony Stewart's) I completely disagree with the cartoon that was posted. The biggest problem that I have with the whole situation is that the common argument amongst those that attack Colin Kaepernick is that because he doesn't stand for the national anthem, it means he hates soldiers both alive and fallen. Just because someone didn't support the war in Iraq, does it mean that they can't support the soldiers who put their lives on the line every single day? Any assumption that this is true is utterly ridiculous. From what I understand, the protest is being made because of opinions that America is still a country that tolerates racism and is not truly "the land of the free"; in Orwellian terms it is "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others". He refuses to stand because the country he sees is not one of equality as promised. I don't see how this involves soldiers and veterans in any way. And just a simple side note, the La Russa situation is one that can definitely be argued. I wasn't aware that he had made statements against Kaepernick and his right to protest, but since reading them he is in the wrong. While some would make arguments against him because of a divorce (which many still consider immoral) and a very quick marriage thereafter (implying infidelity), but I would point out that he was in total support of the freedom of speech when it comes to the Tea Party but not when it comes to others. In regards to your first point, I was pointing out the fact that people are saying that anyone who wants (for lack of a better term) Kaepernick to stand "must be for mandatory flag worship". I am just trying to point out that is not the case. You're talking to someone who doesn't support the Iraq War. (Not trying to sound like a smartass with that sentence.) Do I think the situation should've been handled differently? Yes. However, as they say, "Hindsight is 20/20". Also, I have not read Mr. LaRussa's comments on the matter. That is my fault. I focused more on the "counter arguments" that involved his past marriages.
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Sept 18, 2016 10:57:48 GMT
I don't get the whole thing tbh. In England, if someone speaks during rememberance day 1 minute silence, we briefly think they are a dick and move on just as fast. We recently had some singer forget, or simply not learn the national anthem when due to sing it in a stadium full of people. The media tried to make a big deal of it, most people just tootj the mick a bit, said she shouldn't get paid, and that was that.
A similar type thing has happened over the pond and shit has hit the fan. From my point of view i just don't get it. Mild annoyance maybe but for it to be contuining after the anthem itself ended i find odd.
I am not American though, perhaps it requires a more regional viewpoint.
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Niles Y93
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Post by Niles Y93 on Sept 18, 2016 11:44:57 GMT
I don't get the whole thing tbh. In England, if someone speaks during rememberance day 1 minute silence, we briefly think they are a dick and move on just as fast. We recently had some singer forget, or simply not learn the national anthem when due to sing it in a stadium full of people. The media tried to make a big deal of it, most people just tootj the mick a bit, said she shouldn't get paid, and that was that. A similar type thing has happened over the pond and shit has hit the fan. From my point of view i just don't get it. Mild annoyance maybe but for it to be contuining after the anthem itself ended i find odd. I am not American though, perhaps it requires a more regional viewpoint. Well, if I may ask, does proverbial someone say they will continue to do so for the unseen future, possibly in an attempt to just bring attention to himself? The reason I ask is because if it was a onetime thing, we probably wouldn't be talking about it. But the problem is that he continues to bring it back up. The other problem is, like I said in the other thread, the timing and motive. Is he really "protesting injustice"? Or is he doing something to keep him in the news and prevent his team from cutting him after his contract year. Like I have said, I firmly believe it is his right to do what he is doing. However, it is also the right of the critics to criticize. What I do have a problem with, however, is the nastiness people direct towards the critics of Mr. Kaepernick's actions.
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Post by R35T NO MORE on Sept 18, 2016 12:32:39 GMT
I don't get the whole thing tbh. In England, if someone speaks during rememberance day 1 minute silence, we briefly think they are a dick and move on just as fast. We recently had some singer forget, or simply not learn the national anthem when due to sing it in a stadium full of people. The media tried to make a big deal of it, most people just tootj the mick a bit, said she shouldn't get paid, and that was that. A similar type thing has happened over the pond and shit has hit the fan. From my point of view i just don't get it. Mild annoyance maybe but for it to be contuining after the anthem itself ended i find odd. I am not American though, perhaps it requires a more regional viewpoint. Well, if I may ask, does proverbial someone say they will continue to do so for the unseen future, possibly in an attempt to just bring attention to himself? The reason I ask is because if it was a onetime thing, we probably wouldn't be talking about it. But the problem is that he continues to bring it back up. The other problem is, like I said in the other thread, the timing and motive. Is he really "protesting injustice"? Or is he doing something to keep him in the news and prevent his team from cutting him after his contract year. Like I have said, I firmly believe it is his right to do what he is doing. However, it is also the right of the critics to criticize. What I do have a problem with, however, is the nastiness people direct towards the critics of Mr. Kaepernick's actions. No idea, maybe they do, maybe they don't, upto them i guess if they do continue. I know next to nothing about this Colin guy. If he's doing it just to put himself on a front page then he is a bit of a dick, however people giving it attention gets him what he wants. To simplify it, it sounds like the guy is trolling the whole of the USA, he's found a way to wind everybody up and judging by your post, he now intends to continue to use it by bringing it up.
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Snorelacks
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Post by Snorelacks on Sept 18, 2016 14:55:08 GMT
My two cents on the issue are that he has the Constitutional right to kneel if he so chooses. I fought for that right, and while we may not agree with a person's actions, it doesn't mean we can selectively support our rights only when they align with our own personal views.
That said, his employer, sponsors and fans have the right to either boycott, fine or cancel contracts if his actions don't represent their views. They cannot however, make him stand. I'm fine with that. His choice, and choices have consequences. I personally think he's a bit of a "jack wagon" given that he was raised by parents that took him in after his father abandoned him, reportedly afforded him a good life in a country that allows him to make millions of dollars throwing around a dead animal skin. There are many countries in this world where bi-racial children are truly racially oppressed. Additionally, he didn't start this demonstration until he started dating a woman with extreme views. I also think his decision to wear socks with pigs was disrespectful to law enforcement, but once again, his choice.
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Niles Y93
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Post by Niles Y93 on Sept 19, 2016 0:14:42 GMT
Well, if I may ask, does proverbial someone say they will continue to do so for the unseen future, possibly in an attempt to just bring attention to himself? The reason I ask is because if it was a onetime thing, we probably wouldn't be talking about it. But the problem is that he continues to bring it back up. The other problem is, like I said in the other thread, the timing and motive. Is he really "protesting injustice"? Or is he doing something to keep him in the news and prevent his team from cutting him after his contract year. Like I have said, I firmly believe it is his right to do what he is doing. However, it is also the right of the critics to criticize. What I do have a problem with, however, is the nastiness people direct towards the critics of Mr. Kaepernick's actions. No idea, maybe they do, maybe they don't, upto them i guess if they do continue. I know next to nothing about this Colin guy. If he's doing it just to put himself on a front page then he is a bit of a dick, however people giving it attention gets him what he wants. To simplify it, it sounds like the guy is trolling the whole of the USA, he's found a way to wind everybody up and judging by your post, he now intends to continue to use it by bringing it up. To be honest, I couldn't care less what he does. I don't follow American football, so his actions don't concern me. However, with my feed being loaded with comments about this, I cannot help but see the "discussion" that happens over the topic, and seeing the vileness spewed by both sides, and that is where I take issue. When it seems one side is "validating" or "invalidating" other's opinions based on what they do with their lives or irrelevant actions. I guess it's just the politician in me.
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Simone
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Post by Simone on Sept 19, 2016 3:23:00 GMT
America is a surreal place, really. A complicated place with a diverse range of cultures and creeds. Color doesn't even begin to tell a story. "White" or "Caucasian", for instance, won't tell you anything about a person. There is a huge difference between a white male from Portland, Oregon, and a white male from Birmingham, Alabama, and neither of those descriptors tell you anything about their views or backgrounds even so. And that's just "whites".
In spite of this incredible diversity, we are somehow strapped with nothing but polarized choices. Our society is far from binary but media would lead us to believe that our views should be. And there are plenty of people who settle for such a binary view, perhaps for convenience. Even the predominantly two-party political system is amazingly robust - rarely is a candidate from any other party a serious threat, yet if you speak to enough democrats and republicans you'll find that they don't always agree with their respective parties.
Coming to the point, CK takes a knee during the national anthem in protest, a protest that coincides with the "Black Lives Matter" movement. It is his right to do so. It is also the right of others to criticize him for it. However, the more curious aspect to this is the willingness to draw lines where the battleground is poorly understood. This includes the patriotism that CK's detractors feel they hold over him. I would wager that the majority of such patriots, for instance, cannot tell you how many verses the national anthem has, who wrote it or under what circumstances, and probably know very little about the US constitution or even the specific right in question here. Likewise, it is doubtful that his defenders know anything of the actual statistics behind the BLM movement and whether the charges or arguments are truly valid.
I guess my point is that Americans are strangely content to react to media in an almost binary fashion, whether or not they understand the underlying arguments. CK is a big deal because media makes him one. BLM has protestors and detractors that know little of the actual issues outside of what media presents to them. We're really very lazy in that sense, and too trusting.
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